# Low-risk Podcasting

Source: https://share.transistor.fm/s/bf50183a
Kiwi News: https://news.kiwistand.com/stories/Low-risk-Podcasting?index=0x68d7272f2284f4c0fa7c8ae6871b052c3c783e02c71161d8a83b614b371d8b35048ec094
Submitted by misha on 2025-09-26 UTC, 1 upvote, 0 comments

## Summary

This podcast episode discusses a recent token launch tied to CryptoPunks and Bored Ape-related activity, with Chris and Aaron arguing that the design worked as intended after early problems. Chris says the launch was buggy because the protocol relied on market arbitrage bots without clearly communicating that behavior, and an unidentified actor reportedly netted about 750,000 bucks by repeatedly directing protocol buys of a listed ape. Aaron notes that as of that day, 613 ether in protocol fees had been collected and calls the model an elegant mix of ERC20 fungibility and NFT nonfungibility, though he sees challenges in enforcing the fee on chain.

## Article

00;00;16;00 - 00;00;20;18 Aaron Man. I'm really looking forward to going to Marfa you guys. Ready for it? It's a couple weeks away, right?

00;00;20;21 - 00;00;29;06 Chris I am really looking forward to it and I'm so not ready for it. I got a lot of work to do ahead of that, but yes, I don't care. Way to get down there.

00;00;29;09 - 00;00;43;22 Aaron Yeah, I just feel like it's such, like a good breath of fresh air. It's also kind of fun to see the NFT market getting excited again with all this. Like punk star meets the what's it? BRB star is BRB going to be a word that, everybody's saying at some point?

00;00;43;25 - 00;00;57;08 Pri I haven't seen BRB sure yet. I'm like out of it, but that's interesting. Chris, are you like, jam packed for Marvel, for the book and everything? Is that why you're feeling like the heat right now? Yeah, I like being a few weeks away.

00;00;57;10 - 00;01;14;12 Chris I got a few too many balls in the air. The. I typeset the book on Saturday. It's back to the printers on Tuesday. I don't know if it's good to go and, you know, print up 100 or so copies and and send them on down the glitch. And I'm just trying to focus, on the app. I want to the prototype, I want to demo.

00;01;14;12 - 00;01;26;01 Chris And so I just need to settle a couple of these things down and lock in, and then I'll be good. But right now, no, like a two minute, I'm juggling like, cats and chainsaws and the good dishes.

00;01;26;05 - 00;01;31;24 Aaron We believe in you. You're going to get it nailed, Chris. Excited to see your creative output.

00;01;31;26 - 00;01;34;09 Pri What kind of what kind of food are you going to have at your event?

00;01;34;13 - 00;01;46;17 Chris I don't even know. I don't even know. Like I got to reach out to Zach and sort that out. I got to put together like a fucking invite and like, post that so people can RSVP, like, please, we're trying to do a podcast here.

00;01;46;20 - 00;01;50;14 Pri Oh, sorry. Oh, sorry. Sorry.

00;01;50;16 - 00;01;53;10 Aaron We're happy to help you with any of that. If you need any support.

00;01;53;13 - 00;01;55;27 Chris Thank you I appreciate that. You guys are great.

00;01;55;29 - 00;02;07;22 Aaron You know. But I am excited about, like, the punk stir meat stir. Just like little trend that we saw bubbling up. I feel like it's been an interesting couple of days with it. Anybody want to recap? Yeah.

00;02;07;25 - 00;02;30;00 Chris Oh, man. Recap. Yeah. So this thing's been a little all over the map and it launched. There was a lot of excitement around punk stir. And then of course, this being the space everyone on the planet went, oh my God, this thing looks like it caught attention and maybe could be big. Let's copy it. To which right now the Can token words can get, you know, said, hey, hold on a minute, guys.

00;02;30;07 - 00;02;55;28 Chris We'll take care of this. Just give us a day. They push that out a day or two later. It behaved as it was supposed to, but they didn't clearly communicate the fact that they were relying on market based arbitrage bots or market incentives to get the thing to, you know, perform in an optimal way that efficiently functioned as this, you know, buy, burn, hold market.

00;02;56;00 - 00;03;32;14 Chris This whole thing of a jig. And so you know, a few people understood this ahead of time and they got to work. And so, of course, it was apesar because by cosmic decree, all forms of like fuckery and stupid behavior in the NFT space has to originate out of the bored apes community. And so someone basically on Friday, when the more generalized version of this went live, the initial token sale of apes generated all sorts of fees for the protocol to market by apes with.

00;03;32;17 - 00;03;51;08 Chris Now, the way the protocol works is someone has to trigger trigger those buys and what it buys is only rangebound by what's in the treasury. And so someone went went crazy and said, I'm going to list my ape super high. I'm going to direct the protocol to buy this, and I'm going to do it over and over and over again.

00;03;51;10 - 00;04;17;17 Chris And this I don't know. And that had netted some enterprising opportunities 750,000 bucks. There was a lot of brouhaha, which, you know, I think had they clearly communicated the expected product behavior and let people know this was, you know, kind of like an early launch condition that the market would efficiently resolve once everyone got their ducks in a row and acted as rational actors.

00;04;17;20 - 00;04;39;18 Chris Right. It wouldn't have been an issue, but everyone learned it post facto. And so then there was a lot of, oh my God, what's going on here? You know, type of, FUD. And then, you know, people put bots in place and the kind of let, let it act is more of a permissionless order book, I guess. And now it looks like it's settled.

00;04;39;18 - 00;05;07;13 Chris Well, and that Mr. or BBO is actually using the protocol very effectively and taking their 1% fee, you know, that they get is participating in this and using it to buy the buy me bits off the market. And so, you know, come Monday where we are here right now on this call, it looks like the whole the whole thing is working as designed.

00;05;07;19 - 00;05;09;24 Chris Did I, did I do a good job there again.

00;05;09;26 - 00;05;26;21 Aaron I think you did a great job. Yeah I mean it's super cool just to kind of see some like on chain innovation. There was some hiccups. I think Adam and the token work team did a great job. Just kind of navigating that. It's hard to get these things right off the bat. That was like a gap. It's unfortunate to see people take advantage of it.

00;05;26;27 - 00;05;31;18 Aaron Did we ever figure out who who was that enterprising actor of degeneracy?

00;05;31;19 - 00;05;34;00 Pri Chris. Well, it was pretty clever, I will say.

00;05;34;03 - 00;05;52;22 Chris I don't believe the timeline is, uncovered. This this person and I'm sure they, acted in a way to try to not get uncovered. But I don't think this is, you know, this is out there. Look, we live in a world of, like, sandwich attacks and bots and dark forests. And so, you know, this is, what?

00;05;52;22 - 00;05;55;27 Chris I buy the ticket, take the rides type of thing, you know?

00;05;55;29 - 00;06;18;22 Aaron Yeah, but as of today, there's been 613 ether and protocol fees, collected. I don't know if that's just with punk strategy or across all the different strategies. It seems like it's it's creating like an exciting new mechanic. Only possible based on some innovation from the Uniswap team and the Uniswap fee for Hux, which is pretty cool to see.

00;06;18;22 - 00;06;39;07 Aaron And I think it, you know, yeah, I think it kind of brings like a positive flywheel to some of these ecosystems, right? Where we see in different projects or attempts of kind of combining the fungibility of Erc20 with the nonfungible natures of different NFT sets. And I think this is probably the most elegant version of that that that we've seen.

00;06;39;09 - 00;06;57;12 Aaron I don't think it's perfect. I think there's some some challenges with this model, especially charging the fee and, you know, kind of how to enforce that on chain. But I do think it's been pretty cool to kind of watch it and watch it develop and kind of grow. It's been kind of fun to see Adam, who, if folks knew him from Token Works, is done.

00;06;57;12 - 00;07;10;12 Aaron A number of different projects like have one that kind of catches like a bit more attention. I think he's done a lot of good work over the past couple of years, you know, without the accolades that I think he deserved. But I think it's pretty cool. I think the questions I have is like, how far can this go?

00;07;10;15 - 00;07;15;23 Aaron What are the riffs on this? Like, where does it work best? Like, those are the types of things I'm trying to figure out.

00;07;15;26 - 00;07;39;02 Chris Yeah, as you should. Right? I mean, crypto likes to take like the flavor of the day and blow it up to all sorts of levels of hyperbole. And the reality is only time really shows the utility, durability and like what purpose these sort of things serve. I do think it's interesting. You know, one thing I liked about this is, you know, you mentioned atoms and doing a lot, right?

00;07;39;02 - 00;07;57;05 Chris Like, I'm a product guy. I always kind of have it in my head. It's a lot like hitting a baseball, you know, like if you're batting 300, you're doing great. And I think that's that's something everyone ought to keep in mind is you can put a lot of work out there. And, you know, it takes certain conditions to certain environments.

00;07;57;05 - 00;08;19;18 Chris You're working in certain external factors, and you can never quite tell what's going to take and what isn't. And the other thing I liked about this is, you know, a lot of our talent in crypto really wants to, like, try to hit home runs. And, you know, they run off, they invent these huge things on their own. And this one really just said no, you know what?

00;08;19;18 - 00;08;46;07 Chris The Cryptopunks marketplace is the most durable liquid market in the NFT world. I'm going to go hit a single or double and I'm going to, build something that attaches to an already existing flywheel and add more utility to it. And I wish more people took that approach. You know, instead of saying, you know what, I need to go build an L1 cloud verification, this, that.

00;08;46;07 - 00;08;49;07 Chris And the other thing that, you know, it's like talking.

00;08;49;07 - 00;08;50;21 Aaron About I can layer.

00;08;50;23 - 00;08;51;21 Pri Like.

00;08;51;23 - 00;08;54;10 Chris Invites you talking about, you know. Yeah. Yeah.

00;08;54;12 - 00;08;58;15 Aaron That's great that they're doing important work, man. You'll see.

00;08;58;17 - 00;09;15;13 Chris We won't know. We won't know in time. But what I'm saying is, too much of people who have a good command of all the tools, then take it and try to build it like an entire continent versus saying, this is a really nice part of the city. Let me put it up. Yeah. You know, my own, my own high rise here.

00;09;15;15 - 00;09;46;05 Aaron Yeah. You're 1,000% right about that. That's I think it's great to kind of see that people are still excited about digital art, digital collectibles, NFTs and are still kind of pushing the envelope here. I think one of the challenges the digital asset crypto space has now is there's just so much activity around AI. It's super fun to build in that area of fun to use the new like On-Demand programing capabilities and tools that you know, not not not every developer that was building in the space is still here.

00;09;46;05 - 00;10;01;05 Aaron So it's fun to kind of see where the innovation is coming from. I think that's like a strong signal of kind of the where the market's going to mature over the next, you know, a couple quarters a year, year and a half. I like that he was kind of doing all that and I like that he's building on utility.

00;10;01;05 - 00;10;03;09 Aaron Chris thought that's a really good point. Yeah.

00;10;03;09 - 00;10;28;21 Chris And like another part of that right, is if you build in a busy part of town other people are already inhabiting, it gives them the opportunity to collaborate or to take advantage of, oh, you put a nice this thing around the corner for me. This is something I can help promote as well that benefits me. I can create aligned games and you know, so and Mico really like, you know, Sajida has a finance background.

00;10;28;21 - 00;10;51;01 Chris He's got a head for this stuff. And so I think of all the, you know, first cohort of projects he uses, he was a guy who said, I get this and I know what it can do for me. And he went to work on it. Right. And that's nice to see as well. Whereas like to your point about Igen, everyone still scratching their heads and wondering what the hell's going on in the new world.

00;10;51;03 - 00;10;59;00 Aaron I think some people have brought Igen, especially if you're like running a validator or staking, but I hear you on that. You know, I.

00;10;59;03 - 00;11;01;21 Pri Was catching strays on this podcast, right? Yeah.

00;11;01;21 - 00;11;06;08 Aaron Why? I don't know why it's getting so much, but it's a great look.

00;11;06;09 - 00;11;10;26 Chris I could I can point to monitor. Like it's going to make it easy. I guess that's fair number of things.

00;11;10;26 - 00;11;12;01 Pri That's fair. Those are fair.

00;11;12;01 - 00;11;17;06 Aaron Yeah, yeah. Just because we don't know exactly what those projects are going to going to bring yet. But I.

00;11;17;06 - 00;11;17;19 Pri Just want.

00;11;17;19 - 00;11;30;23 Chris Every D10 project out there. Right. Like yes. This is not exclusive. That again all I'm saying is I like seeing builders build things a little closer to home that other, you know, in other people's neighborhoods.

00;11;30;26 - 00;11;58;15 Aaron Well, when you were saying that, yeah, I think you're right. I mean, that kind of reminds me, actually, of just DeFi, right? Like DeFi was built off of you know, a lot of activity related to Erc20 market, right? Like Uniswap was more made Erc20 more useful by creating an easier way to buy, sell and trade them. Right, or you know, you saw a maker or are they kind of doing the same thing when it came to the collateral of ether or, you know, other assets that now you can borrow and, and lend against?

00;11;58;15 - 00;12;06;28 Aaron So I think you're right that that is like a better strategy, like building on top of the great work of others instead of just trying to build your own universe.

00;12;07;00 - 00;12;15;19 Chris Hey, hey, free. Did you happen to spend any time this weekend reading about italics toast on, low risk DeFi? I certainly didn't.

00;12;15;21 - 00;12;16;27 Pri I did not.

00;12;17;00 - 00;12;24;27 Chris I only bring it up because I caught on the timelines comparison people comparing it both to Google and the Bible.

00;12;25;00 - 00;12;26;00 Pri What?

00;12;26;03 - 00;12;28;24 Chris Which seems a little out of hand, does it not?

00;12;28;27 - 00;12;32;16 Pri No, it definitely does. Come on. Shall we put it up here? Let's see.

00;12;32;18 - 00;12;36;29 Aaron Yeah. I mean it was low risk. DeFi can be for Ethereum. What search was for Google.

00;12;37;05 - 00;12;38;22 Pri What search was for.

00;12;38;28 - 00;12;45;04 Chris So he himself was placing it alongside Google. Okay.

00;12;45;07 - 00;13;02;00 Aaron Yeah. I mean, you know, I think, I think the idea is that, you know, it's, you know, there's increasingly like, low risk DeFi protocols. I don't know if everybody caught this, but I think of as now, like the 35th or 36th largest bank period, which is kind of wild.

00;13;02;02 - 00;13;03;02 Pri That is crazy.

00;13;03;05 - 00;13;30;27 Aaron And, you know, I think it's just getting started. So maybe the story of 26 or 27 is when that breaks to the top ten or the top five. And so we're seeing more and more people kind of use it. And I think, I think what Vitalik is trying to say about that is that, you know, these like daily or pretty reasonable use cases for ETH can evolve into something that's that it's like a good entry way for people who want to explore digital assets.

00;13;30;27 - 00;13;51;10 Aaron And then it can evolve into, you know, you know, more emerging types of things, whether it's prediction markets or reputation based lending or, you know, different times of basket based currencies, flat coins, personal tokens, like all these things kind of need an entry point. And and maybe a low risk DeFi is kind of the starting off point for that.

00;13;51;10 - 00;13;54;29 Aaron So I think that that's kind of what he was saying in that article. At its.

00;13;54;29 - 00;14;19;15 Pri Core. I don't think he's wrong about that. Like, I mean, the hard core like complicated be your own bank DeFi not as interesting, but the basics around the low cost DeFi, which is just like sticking and things of that ilk, like just yield on lending and and liquidity pools like that stuff is pretty lightweight enough that I think most normal people would be open to participating, even if you think about it.

00;14;19;18 - 00;14;39;11 Pri But just applying it to the punk strategy thing, like in a way that is kind of low cost DeFi, it's just like, hey, you buy token, there's a little tax on it. You're not even realizing what's happening. And then that's algorithmically buying something of the set. Like that's like a third order low effect of like low cost DeFi, I would say.

00;14;39;14 - 00;14;56;02 Pri So kind of get what he's saying because like, I don't really engage in DeFi outside of that. And it's and I can see a lot of the banks, especially as like stablecoins become ubiquitous, like immediately starting to get yield on on that for example, like that feels like easy.

00;14;56;09 - 00;15;36;03 Aaron I think it's also like provides like bread and butter, like feed generation for Ethereum, which should help. It's just be sustainable financially, right? Like because of low risk DeFi and the demand for it that's going to sustain the broader Ethereum ecosystem. And then that can lead to some of these more emergent use cases and applications. So I thought it was a pretty simple point at its core that Vitalik was saying, but I think an important one, kind of like how, you know, search really is or has been historically the engine for Google, although that may obviously be changing, which enabled it to go from everything from Gmail to Google Docs to like Waymo.

00;15;36;07 - 00;15;45;08 Aaron Really, it was kind of all built on the backs of Google search results and the advertising market around it, which which I think is pretty interesting.

00;15;45;10 - 00;15;56;07 Chris Well, maybe comparing it to online brokerages or fintech might have been a little more appropriate. Maybe I should have read the article before I started. You know, I would take it there, but now.

00;15;56;09 - 00;15;59;16 Aaron You don't need to read an article to throw out a takes. Chris, that would violate.

00;15;59;18 - 00;16;01;11 Chris The first rule of the internet.

00;16;01;14 - 00;16;02;27 Aaron Of the internet. Yeah, exactly.

00;16;02;27 - 00;16;10;03 Pri Speaking of not reading articles and having a take, though, did you guys see the Bank of England? Like proposing a cap on individual stablecoin holdings?

00;16;10;03 - 00;16;11;20 Aaron I thought that was so bizarre.

00;16;11;26 - 00;16;14;13 Pri That's why they slow it down.

00;16;14;15 - 00;16;20;11 Chris This is also the same country that's arresting people for posting on Twitter. And so true.

00;16;20;18 - 00;16;21;03 Pri That's true.

00;16;21;03 - 00;16;34;26 Chris I don't think you look at the specific policy. I think you look at the general attitude towards, you know, wanting to nanny state its citizens around arbitrary definitions that are soothing those in power, which seems to be a theme these days.

00;16;34;28 - 00;16;43;16 Aaron Yeah, yeah. That's like a big meta, a big meta trend of 2025, 20, 26, right, right into 2027.

00;16;43;18 - 00;17;01;23 Chris The worst part is we in New York have lived this before. We had our friend Michael Bloomberg trying to tell us what size sodas we could buy, you know, so it's not like this is new. It's not like it aligns with an ideology. It's really a representation of powers attitude towards the populace these days.

00;17;01;26 - 00;17;23;06 Aaron I think it's that I think it's also like a recognition of that. How powerful stablecoins are. And I think they seem really simple on their face, but they really just change and will change over time. Just the fundamental nature of how banks operate. And I do think that they are, in the long run, going to put and apply some competitive pressure on central banks.

00;17;23;06 - 00;17;46;00 Aaron And maybe that's what really they were signaling with those caps that they're worried about, that they're worried that people are going to not choose to hold their dollars in, you know, UK banking institutions and instead choose to hold them in their MetaMask address. Right, earning, you know, a yield. And I think that that's one of the core worries of lots of the kind of global banking leaders as they look at digital assets.

00;17;46;00 - 00;17;49;23 Aaron I think they're worried about the depository base, like eroding over time.

00;17;49;25 - 00;18;07;02 Chris I think that's a fair, reasonable assessment versus my broad blanket statements about power. And, you know, if you're the UK and you do not have a dynamic economy and you're largely resting on the laurels of like selling off your past accomplishments, I too would probably be scared of the stablecoins.

00;18;07;03 - 00;18;35;11 Pri I think that's what it fundamentally is, is like having being able to slow it down and have control of the situation by limiting it to like 10 to 20 K, you can at least like try to understand and try to just gain control of, you know, any, any institution that could potentially compete with the bank. It's like what the you know, frankly, the U.S government and another banking institutions have done to crypto over the last decade is just trying to slow it down so that they can catch up.

00;18;35;11 - 00;18;45;22 Pri And I feel like this is just the same thing as like they're saying the stable, cool stablecoin moves in the U.S, that they're just like, okay, we need to like get ahead of this and control the situation because we're not ready.

00;18;45;24 - 00;18;58;25 Chris Fair enough. Are you monitoring another situation out there? And it's the one I'm speaking of, is the money market situation, in which 7.7 trillion with the $2 now hang around in lending markets.

00;18;58;27 - 00;19;03;16 Pri Well, you mean that will now slowly get invested into private markets?

00;19;03;18 - 00;19;11;19 Chris I'm just saying that's a lot of money to, like, sit around and earn, you know, a couple of basis points because you don't know what to do with it.

00;19;11;20 - 00;19;40;18 Aaron Yeah. It's true. I mean, I think that that's a lot of that is going to increasingly find its way into the stablecoin market. Chris, I haven't kind of looking at that a little bit. And I do think like as interest rates go down and as the the native yields in the digital asset ecosystem kind of continue to ramp up, I don't see how some portion of that of those trillions like wind up, you know, flirting with with the digital asset market, it does feel like a lot of capital just sitting on the sidelines.

00;19;40;21 - 00;20;06;17 Chris Yeah. I mean, it's sitting on the sidelines for good reason. You know the stock market valuations are sky high. There's maybe not a lot of trust in the integrity of markets right now. Asset values are inflated like crazy. And so you know maybe it would be nice to put some capital into functional things that have a high degree of trust and security, aka code is law aka DeFi.

00;20;06;22 - 00;20;28;29 Chris That does feel like a decent opportunity. If you're a money market setter. And like, what have we used to say back in the 21 bull when we would look at huge numbers like this? Even if 1%, 1% of the 7.7 trillion in money markets found its way into low risk DeFi. Dot dot dot Vitalik return to Ethereum and to Google.

00;20;28;29 - 00;20;48;13 Aaron Which he's saying pretty much is happening. I mean, I think that is actually happening though now, and I think I've noted this, but if you have a MetaMask card, which they kind of rolled out, you know, you can earn 3% just from for any Usdc that's in there. But if you convert it to like a Usdc, which is always Usdc, it's it's like a blended rate of 13%.

00;20;48;15 - 00;21;08;23 Aaron I'm sure there's some risk there. It's probably much riskier than just a vanilla money market account, but the fact that you could earn that amount of yield to send dollars is pretty appealing. I mean, that's better than what you're going to get from the stock market on an on an annual basis. If you're just in, you know, S&P 500 related, you know, instruments.

00;21;08;23 - 00;21;18;00 Aaron So I just think I think we're kind of seeing the internet economy. And I think crypto is a piece of that generating better returns than the legacy economy.

00;21;18;07 - 00;21;39;14 Pri Yeah. I was actually just going to say I think I shared this tweet with you. I mean, I know blogger is your favorite, Chris, but he did have like a nice tweet two days ago. That was just like a graph of just like that 293 stocks in the max oven. And like the discrepancy is insane. And his years, just like the legacy economy is being sunset in favor of the internet economy.

00;21;39;17 - 00;21;58;26 Pri And like crypto, largely charts the magic seven because I think it's just people treat it like a tech stock in a way. But it is true. To your point, Aaron, where it's like, I just think the internet economy, the digital economy, digital assets, all of that is just going to outpace any sort of like other type of company.

00;21;58;26 - 00;22;08;00 Pri I don't know, I mean, unless it somehow touches the digital or internet economy, like I don't I don't see how that just doesn't continue marching forward.

00;22;08;04 - 00;22;18;21 Chris You know, what sort of flipping we ought to be looking for is when NerdWallet starts paying attention to DeFi and promoting it more than credit cards and airline points.

00;22;18;24 - 00;22;23;03 Pri Yeah, I mean, did Robinhood. Robinhood is not that far away from that.

00;22;23;06 - 00;22;46;20 Aaron But I think that's why you're seeing them do it right. They just know that they do have a pulse on the next generation of financial consumer, and they're going to be able to offer more compelling products or services than, you know, your, your traditional bank. And I think that that's exciting, right? I mean, and I do think some portion of the money on the sidelines is going to start flirting with it just because it is pretty compelling.

00;22;46;20 - 00;22;57;19 Aaron If the proposition is like, you know, 13% interest on your dollars, why wouldn't you put a sleeve into that? Assuming they're assuming you understand the risks and, you know, all the comfortable with that.

00;22;57;19 - 00;23;04;00 Pri Policy noob here. But like as more volume enters DeFi, doesn't that compress the yields or. No.

00;23;04;07 - 00;23;09;15 Aaron Yeah, I think so. But you know, I think it's going to take a lot of capital to go in before it gets compressed down.

00;23;09;17 - 00;23;10;05 Pri Okay.

00;23;10;08 - 00;23;24;21 Aaron And you know and some of that yield is also just native to the the theory and protocol itself to the extent that it's eath based yield or eath plus eigenbasis yield Chris. So I think that that's almost like a native yield and a floor that's going to be pretty high too.

00;23;24;24 - 00;23;52;14 Chris Yeah. And also realize like, lending to corporates right now is still still getting like a ten, 11% rate. And so you know what? You know, a 13% rate isn't unreasonable when you compare it to, I don't know, someone wants to borrow money to put up a, you know, a mixed commercial building or, you know, someone wants to, upgrade their plant like they're paying a kind of similar rate on money if they can issue, you know, debt via bonds.

00;23;52;14 - 00;24;04;23 Chris Anyway, let's talk about something stupid. Which way do you want to go? Do you want to have thoughts on airline lounges or the political colonization of painkillers or pre you spin the wheel.

00;24;04;25 - 00;24;05;29 Pri Let me see.

00;24;06;01 - 00;24;08;02 Aaron I have a couple others that are on the hopper.

00;24;08;04 - 00;24;08;26 Chris Go for it.

00;24;09;03 - 00;24;35;08 Aaron But I mean, I do think there was a milestone that got passed, you know, just last week. There's a big competition for programmers. And on the large LMS, I went in and or at least some of them did and competed. And it turns out that, you know, OpenAI won with some of its coding agents. So at this, at this point, it's kind of becoming unequivocally uncontroversial that AI is the best just developer, period.

00;24;35;10 - 00;24;54;28 Aaron And I think that, you know, the last time we kind of saw this was related to AlphaGo and chess before it, but I do think it's an important kind of milestone. And there seems to be just more and more research, academic studies that are coming out, just you know, kind of coming to similar conclusions, regardless of that profession or, or white collar work.

00;24;54;28 - 00;25;09;20 Aaron So I do think we're kind of crossing some sort of, a chasm or are about to enter into some sort of a phase shift when it comes to these systems. So I do think, I do think it's interesting, kind of notable, increasingly kind of curious how this gets rolled out into the economy.

00;25;09;23 - 00;25;35;17 Chris That's decidedly unsupervised and stupid and very, very sober view, Aaron. But it is it is interesting and worth noting. I feel like GPT five is getting better. I, I have more confidence in the tasks I'm assigning to it. I've actually found myself favoring it over cloud these days. Just because cloud still gets a little hyper and, you know, can run off on its own, in its own direction based on its own faulty thinking.

00;25;35;17 - 00;25;43;28 Chris And so I kind of am preferring the the cold, cold, rational, minimal, you know, GPT five these days.

00;25;44;00 - 00;26;08;10 Aaron It is it is more minimal. And I don't know what they used for it. If that's something unreleased. And I was Sam was teasing that there's going to be some new functionality, capabilities, new model that's going to require more compute that they're going to roll out, pretty soon. So maybe it was that. But I just feel like, you know, what's it September by what, March next year you're probably gonna get 2 to 3 more model upgrades.

00;26;08;10 - 00;26;27;02 Aaron I think anthropic is coming out with another one. I'm. I think Laura came up with something new. I'm sure we're going to see something from, some more stuff from Google and OpenAI itself. So just what happens, right? It feels like 2026. We're going to start to get some of this displacement that I think a lot of folks have been worried about.

00;26;27;04 - 00;26;34;03 Chris Yeah. You know who keeps benefiting from Sammy's, insatiable demand for more compute is, Larry Ellison?

00;26;34;08 - 00;26;38;21 Pri Dude, can we, like, talk about how he is crushing life?

00;26;38;24 - 00;26;41;15 Chris Give us the update on Larry.

00;26;41;18 - 00;27;12;03 Pri I mean, I feel like the Larry Ellison thing. I think the part that I'm finding kind of interesting about him is the fact that he is basically. So putting aside, obviously, the Intel stuff, but just his desire to be almost like this Murdoch like media character, and also in addition to it, you know, entering the land of media and Murdoch and between, like TikTok, Paramount, everything that he's doing but digital media, I feel like he's what else is he going after?

00;27;12;03 - 00;27;13;27 Pri Not paramount, but something else, too.

00;27;14;04 - 00;27;16;18 Chris Oh, that's his kid. And Skydance, I don't know.

00;27;16;18 - 00;27;26;28 Pri Skydance. Yeah, yeah. But I think he's working on it pretty closely because I think he's basically trying to I think he's trying to be the next Murdoch. Murdoch. That's like what I'm trying to say, but like do.

00;27;26;28 - 00;27;28;15 Chris To the one man.

00;27;28;18 - 00;27;31;14 Pri I mean, I think he said it. I think he's setting it up for his kids.

00;27;31;17 - 00;27;34;00 Chris God. Like, he's like, it's empire building.

00;27;34;02 - 00;27;38;29 Pri I think he's empire building before he, like, leaves the world. I just I think it's very interesting.

00;27;39;06 - 00;28;00;05 Aaron It's interesting. The whole TikTok sale, you know, one, you know, I didn't really appreciate it, but, you know, it does makes some sort of sense to not have just outright banned it, but, you know, kept that install base that distribution of media in place, change owners, I'm assuming they're going to change the algorithm related to it, because I don't think that was a part of the DLP.

00;28;00;05 - 00;28;24;05 Aaron I don't know if they'd even want to stick to the same one, like slowly. And I do think that, you know, the nature of what TikTok's serving at least Americans is going to change. And I imagine that Larry and or some of the other investors are going to start to shape that. So to the extent and I think sometimes it's overstated just the degree to which the media landscape is shaping politics or shaping kind of the world that we're living in.

00;28;24;11 - 00;28;28;02 Aaron I do wonder if that's about to shift, too. And if it does, I guess for.

00;28;28;03 - 00;28;48;02 Pri Crypto, right. It's a it feels a little significant because of that. I mean, you're seeing a tech takeover of media basically with this and some of the other things that have happened through social media. The only thing I would note on the TikTok thing is like my understanding is that they're keeping the algorithm. The same, and it's like all proprietary, basically, and they won't have access to it.

00;28;48;02 - 00;28;56;20 Pri I don't know if that's like 100%. Right. But that was like I read an article on there recently noted that, which I'm just like, why would you buy TikTok if you didn't have access to that?

00;28;56;21 - 00;29;18;16 Aaron Yeah, I think they my sense is they probably feel like they can replicate it if they wanted to or at least approximate it. I think it's really just the distribution that is so hard to get right. Like, I don't know how many, how many people in the US have downloaded TikTok. It's probably the hundreds of millions. It's just it's really hard to do that and to get that level of scale for any, any platform or network, like, why would you want to throw that away?

00;29;18;19 - 00;29;23;12 Aaron I think the algorithms are increasingly commoditized because YouTube's that much worse than.

00;29;23;14 - 00;29;47;23 Chris The algorithm might have been. What created TikTok and got it to this point. But could you throw an 80% effective algorithm on this installed distribution, put the power of, you know, state of approval and this large network of whoever they're getting to buy this thing? And it does make me bullish for a hot tub of I feel like she's, she could come back.

00;29;47;23 - 00;29;49;05 Aaron Here, she's going to come back.

00;29;49;08 - 00;29;57;10 Chris In this new world. Yeah. You know, stars are aligning for, spitting on it. Here we go, baby. Idiocracy time, folks.

00;29;57;12 - 00;30;15;17 Pri You think it gets worse? I don't even know what I think it's kind of interesting about. It is like, I remember reading, like, they're basically trying to revive and put new energy into, like, Cartoon Network and Comedy Central. I think that's to some extent a waste of time and money. But also I'm curious to see what they can do with those properties.

00;30;15;20 - 00;30;26;22 Pri But it was so notable about, like reading an article that that is like the average age of someone who watches MTV today is 56. Like, that's nuts. First of all. Second of all, if they're able to even bring that down to like, who.

00;30;26;22 - 00;30;28;26 Aaron Watches MTV, what's on MTV.

00;30;28;28 - 00;30;29;19 Pri Home?

00;30;29;24 - 00;30;48;26 Chris Well, as someone who walked through my living room a couple weeks ago when my wife is watching the VMAs, I can tell you once a year someone watches MTV and that Ricky Martin was performing at the VMAs, which definitely seems like something a 57 year old would like to see.

00;30;48;29 - 00;30;50;06 Pri Yeah. It's true.

00;30;50;08 - 00;31;09;01 Aaron Yeah, I mean, I, I wonder if they kind of merge that all together in because if you, if you think like YouTube is probably the furthest along in this, it has like long form content or short form content, it's all should be kind of mixed together and distributed in a more efficient way. I don't I feel like, that may be what we're kind of moving towards.

00;31;09;01 - 00;31;31;14 Aaron Pray for some of this, but I yeah, I am and you know, a lot of people love that service. And I think the developers obviously deserve credit. I also think that there must have been and probably is like reasonable national security or other concerns just related to, you know, having a foreign national run, such an important media property in your country.

00;31;31;14 - 00;31;36;15 Pri So, yes. The one that's sowing civil war, amongst people. I don't want to go.

00;31;36;18 - 00;31;37;21 Aaron I didn't want to go that far.

00;31;37;21 - 00;31;38;24 Pri But, I mean, like, you.

00;31;38;24 - 00;31;40;23 Aaron Can go there, but to the extent that that's true.

00;31;40;23 - 00;31;42;09 Pri I think it's a conspiracy.

00;31;42;11 - 00;32;01;04 Aaron To the extent that that's true. I mean, it's pretty good to have it in the hands of the new owners. I think if you do believe that it was doing, you know, sowing some degree of discord, it's just going to be interesting to see what the new owners do there. I don't I don't think they're everybody's going to be happy with the tilt of TikTok over the next couple of years.

00;32;01;07 - 00;32;16;17 Chris Aaron, man, I can't triangulate your take on the CCP because a couple weeks ago you were down the rabbit hole saying they're actively discouraging Americans from liking I. Oh, yeah, and now you're saying something to something on the other end of the spectrum, where are you with the red meat? So me.

00;32;16;20 - 00;32;21;25 Aaron I well, I didn't say anything. I said, I just said, you know, I don't know if it's,

00;32;21;27 - 00;32;26;11 Chris I'm giving a shit, man. It's fine. I don't you don't have to answer that. Just tell me I'm being an idiot.

00;32;26;14 - 00;32;43;09 Aaron But I do wonder, like, I think we almost have, like, a, like, a weird natural experiment to see how impactful these networks are like, because they're going to definitely flip the algorithms a bit. Right? And we're going to see how much of an impact that makes. Maybe it makes a huge impact.

00;32;43;12 - 00;32;59;05 Chris Yeah. We'll see. I do feel like our administration is meddling a little too far into private enterprise at the moment. And so will you actually get a real clean experiment that you can draw good reads from or, you know, who knows?

00;32;59;08 - 00;33;03;18 Pri It's a little bit it's it's been troubling, actually to see that I don't like that personally.

00;33;03;18 - 00;33;13;28 Aaron But yeah, it's definitely troubling. I think, though, you know, that meddling relates to kind of legacy media, which just doesn't have the same footprint. Right? You know, this is the footprint or one of the major actors there.

00;33;14;00 - 00;33;24;24 Chris You say that, Aaron, but, Intel is getting meddled with planning US deals, getting meddled with plenty. You know, this is happening, across all sorts of industries and categories.

00;33;24;26 - 00;33;31;21 Aaron It's it's definitely true. Not decisions I would make, Chris. Just so the records clear, I'd be just fine. No, no, no, you said.

00;33;31;23 - 00;33;38;17 Chris You wanted to weigh in from your government position on aspirin. I never implied anything like that. Aaron.

00;33;38;19 - 00;33;52;16 Aaron Yeah. No, it's definitely interesting times that we all live. And that's why, to go back to what I said at the top, looking forward to getting, can added to the the expansive space of West Texas.

00;33;52;18 - 00;34;05;06 Chris Yeah. For sure. It's funny how quickly like, you know, I go away, I come back, I'm like, great. You know, then like four weeks later, you're still getting that itch to go somewhere else again. And, yeah, definitely getting in.

00;34;05;09 - 00;34;21;27 Pri It's only a few weeks away. I feel like it's going to be a good one. I mean, five years is. Can you believe we've been, like, doing this and, like, been in this world for five years? I've been thinking a lot about that. Like the last five years of my life. Your life? Aaron's life. Like, we've been, like, kind of in it from the ground floor, like even flamingos turning five.

00;34;21;27 - 00;34;49;18 Pri And I think like mid-October, I think it was like October 20th something at launch five years ago. And it's been a whirlwind. It's so funny to me that people are still complaining that it's like not moving fast enough. But I'm like, I don't know, like a lot has happened, like the boom, the bust, institutional adoption, like new collectors that have come in, things like innovation, innovations like punk, strategy, like it just feels like I can even really like put a time capsule on the last five years of this space.

00;34;49;18 - 00;35;13;23 Aaron Like I did think there was the Covid like warp. I don't know the right way to describe it, where we kind of got a glimpse of what the future would look like. I think a lot of folks said it was like 5 to 10 years out, and I feel like that's kind of right. Even seeing all the folks playing Steal Your Meme and all these other like metaverse or metaverse adjacent stuff, I just think we kind of had this like momentary period of acceleration.

00;35;13;23 - 00;35;25;10 Aaron Then we had like kind of a pullback, but a lot of those threads are just materializing now. So it kind of felt like way too early and early and right timed that this like all at the same time. It was kind of weird.

00;35;25;12 - 00;36;10;19 Chris Yeah. It's almost like the the marketing in the vision accelerated and only now is the practicality or the implementation of it and starting to catch up. Right. Like if we just look within our own phase, all of those metaverses from that boom are dead on arrival. And I can say from like, what I've been messing around with and building and, you know, other directions like I ability to orchestrate data and transform it as soon as we get maybe, you know, a couple more years out, we're actually going to really start to see maybe the immersive spaces that, you know, don't involve, like blocky polygons running over three.js grids to go look at, hanging a

00;36;10;19 - 00;36;11;29 Chris lot of money, you know?

00;36;12;00 - 00;36;30;21 Aaron Yeah. You know, I see some there's some account I follow on Twitter X, and every time a new model comes out, he just tries to one shot Minecraft and he's like, and it's getting pretty close to be honest. Like the one I forgot what model he was using. But it was it was pretty good. And you know, just seeing this genie stuff from DeepMind like that's going to mature.

00;36;30;21 - 00;36;37;12 Aaron So I do think that that kind of vision is is going to come back pretty soon. I think that'll be another vindication for Mr. Zack.

00;36;37;18 - 00;36;57;17 Chris Yeah, I know for sure. You know what a great account for this is? Poet underscore engineer. She's, a woman does a lot with, like, AI and spatial. And so a lot of that sort of like, hologram like style, like hand gesture motion tracking, really, really like interesting stuff going on there. And, like, you can you're just starting to see glimmers.

00;36;57;17 - 00;37;03;04 Chris I think of like this getting to a point where it's actually mainstream adoptable.

00;37;03;04 - 00;37;06;21 Aaron Yeah. And you know that that's encouraging. I'm excited for that.

00;37;06;24 - 00;37;15;23 Pri Yeah. Powered engineer is cool. What? Sorry, I just decided to look up while you guys were chatting and I'm like, oh, it is really cool. Actually. I like have never seen this.

00;37;15;26 - 00;37;33;27 Chris That and like some of their Twitter. Like if you ever go down the rabbit hole of shader to it, there's like that stuff's pretty crazy as well. Like there's this dribs and drabs of this kind of out in the hobbyist frontier tech community, you know, that I think still requires enough like domain knowledge and tinkering that you can't productize it.

00;37;33;27 - 00;37;37;11 Chris But like, yeah, it's close. Right?

00;37;37;13 - 00;37;38;22 Pri It's pretty cool. Yeah.

00;37;38;22 - 00;38;17;26 Chris Let's talk about our boy Eric. Did you for a moment who dropped zero. And look, we're big fans of Eric's work we've collected for a long time. This is probably the best thing to date where he's able to take the complexity of physics, the generative work that only he really, tends to put out there. And, you know, something that leverages his domain knowledge, right, as a physicist and a professor and put that into, style, digital rendering, big visual canvases that morph over time that, you know, I do think the, the broader collector market is just starting there.

00;38;17;26 - 00;38;37;23 Chris Open their eyes up to the, let's say a massive door, right? Like I'm going to go a hot take right now and say, look, Andreas, guys and Eric to Julie, those are people who are worthy and should be getting greater recognition for the work you're doing right now. And you know, if someone like Eric keeps delivering work like this, I'm sure will come.

00;38;37;25 - 00;38;42;11 Derek Are you are you suggesting that you're going to launch the Eric the Julie Token Works token?

00;38;42;14 - 00;38;57;04 Chris Chris, can you guys stop getting me to, retire into things I shouldn't retire into? Is it not enough that I hold bug 30 Eric to Julie pieces? It's not enough to major bag holder like I now need to get token flywheels going.

00;38;57;07 - 00;38;59;24 Derek Exactly. I'll just add, just, like, just be.

00;38;59;24 - 00;39;01;06 Chris Chill about this, Eric.

00;39;01;12 - 00;39;18;18 Derek Exactly. We got to play. Cool. We got to play it cool. No, I love this drop as well. I picked up a couple. I do find myself going more and more diverse these days, so really, really cool work they're doing over there. The work runs in browser live. The palettes are stunning. I picked up, I think, a couple New York's.

00;39;18;21 - 00;39;19;18 Derek What did you get, Chris?

00;39;19;18 - 00;39;40;19 Chris I went to New York's in Sicily, the New York palette. I think it does wonderful work in that, you know, it has a lot of like, this is something I saw in Massena where, like, I just get this like Hudson River sort of school feel from him light and space and reflection and interactions up on these, you know, sort of big canvases.

00;39;40;19 - 00;40;02;01 Chris And I think he's able to, to carry that almost like heroic nature of the sky in, in New York. And then, you know, there's always like some dissonance and turmoil in his work. And so like the New York was one that, like, stood out to me. I grabbed two of those. But then, because I do hold like 30 art jewelry pieces, I was able to to get another.

00;40;02;01 - 00;40;18;17 Chris And I did want that contrast. And Sicily, it was almost like this irradiated contrast. Right? Almost like a little like nuclear in nature. Or it was like this turquoise on magenta sort of feel to it. And so that was my haul. How about yourself? Yeah.

00;40;18;17 - 00;40;53;11 Derek I mean like, he's so I mean, he's so good at creating kind of yeah. These breathtaking digital works that are very immersive. I mean, you like a lot of his works, like the thing that you're left with and confronted with at the start is not necessarily the entirety of the work. You can, you know, like use your pointer and, and cursor and dig into the work and into incredible detail and see kind of the ebbs and flows of the artwork in, in microscopic ways, which then, you know, I think we've talked about it here on this pod.

00;40;53;11 - 00;41;20;23 Derek It's just like you kind of get the sense that this is someone who is who has spent his life thinking about these imperceptible details that make up these large systems and how these all interrelate with one another. And I'm always left with that when I when I spend time with Eric's work. And it's something I really appreciate and, and just yeah, I think there's a, there's a true element of randomness, like you said, like, like a sky.

00;41;20;27 - 00;41;41;28 Derek And I think some of my favorite generative art does a great job of introducing some of like, the same entropy that exists in nature into digital form factors. And like with this work, for example, you let it run in browser and the work just like changes and just like, you know, note to kind of snapshots of a sky are ever the same.

00;41;42;00 - 00;42;01;10 Derek And so yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm totally enamored with his practice and his work and, and this collection I think is stunning. So yeah, I don't know, I just I, I really appreciate artists who are really committed to, exploring, you know, their, their craft in more detail and, and shaping it as time goes on. And Eric is someone who I have really enjoyed continuing to blog from.

00;42;01;12 - 00;42;13;22 Pri I totally agree. I feel like I've been I you dig Chris, I have I feel like early days forming a you and I were like kind of obsessed with like spectral beings and Mads and I'm I like remembering that right. It was it you I feel like we were like really into it.

00;42;13;24 - 00;42;23;05 Chris It was us. And, KDB Jonas and Jonas. Yeah. There are there were a few of us. Let's let's not. Yeah. Pattern all of ourselves on the back here.

00;42;23;07 - 00;42;41;11 Pri Yeah, I don't know. Totally. Yeah. Not not trying to take credit, but I just feel like. I feel like I, we've liked, we like, have we all have liked his work for such a long time. I was actually looking at this drop and then looking at some of his others, like that proof cathedral study job. I did a book scooping one like, not long ago.

00;42;41;13 - 00;42;58;14 Pri Like literally like an hour ago, because I was like, looking at some of the stuff. And that's an amazing drop to like a lot of his work, you can see the evolution like he's he's very good. This this last one is great. I actually still need to like, dig into it a bit more. I haven't had the chance, but I think I want to pick it up.

00;42;58;14 - 00;43;06;00 Pri I think I like the comp to Kim though I can. I feel like I'm getting similar energy from him and his growth to Chris.

00;43;06;07 - 00;43;30;25 Chris Yeah, and they both tend to work out of like algorithmic systems that build upon themselves. Right? Like there is a through line, I think, in the complexity of their digital practice, that it starts with very small things that are then combined and rendered out into, you know, some something large and striking. But it really does take a little time to get under the surface to, you know, is Darkseid.

00;43;30;25 - 00;43;46;06 Chris Zoom in and just see how deep the level of detail he's using to construct these things. And you know, Kim's famous for his pixel sorting algorithm, right? And how he's able to build and build and build upon it. And I do think Eric works in similar ways.

00;43;46;08 - 00;44;22;15 Derek I'll say one other thing, which is like, you look at this work and I mean, this is going to sound trite, but like, I, I think I'm going to stand behind it, which is you look at this work and they look like, you know, a giant, a giant like Mark Rothko, for example, just like huge luminous color fields that are just like, enormous and meant to kind of like, invoke, you know, a spiritual experience without sort of, you know, with just like with, with huge blocks of color and, and and really being confronted and, and going up close to it and not having, you know, really like littered with symbols or figures.

00;44;22;15 - 00;44;59;11 Derek And it's just being this very kind of like abstract, transcendent experience. And if I was going to pull out like a digital version of that practice of like, a giant, you know, hovering Rothko, it's like it is something like a zero. This most recent collection, one because it looks like that, but using kind of its digital constraints to evoke those same kind of feelings and emotionality, but also because, like, it is completely devoid of symbol and figure and, and, and some of these other things that sound you just heard was me buying another one.

00;44;59;12 - 00;45;02;22 Derek I'm totally just buying one as we speak. Right? I was so fun.

00;45;02;24 - 00;45;24;00 Aaron It's museum great, right? Like that's what you're saying. Like, you could see this scaled up, like, at scale and, you know, significant cultural institutions or, you know, as part of a significant collection. And I think what's encouraging, we've seen this with a bunch of artists, Kim being another example. Just like every time they produce a different work, it just gets better and better.

00;45;24;03 - 00;45;37;07 Aaron Right? And I think that that's super encouraging to think he's continuing to find different ways to explore the space. And I don't know if every artist is in that same boat. I think they obviously try to do that, but I think he's delivering on that.

00;45;37;09 - 00;46;10;12 Chris Kind of growth curve. That's a great point. Er, and like one thing I really do want to see from artists is that the work they're putting out today points a direction to where they can grow over five, over ten years. And that is one thing that, you know with Kim, right? Like you really could see it at a time when the rest of generative art was caught in formalism and like he was one of the few people that that you could actually say, no, this guy could do this for another decade at least.

00;46;10;12 - 00;46;14;06 Chris And we are seeing that with Eric's practice as well. Yeah. And that's and.

00;46;14;06 - 00;46;19;23 Aaron That's like part of the fun of being a collector or supporting.

00;46;19;23 - 00;46;23;01 Chris Online media. Like there are super talented folks. They're scattered everywhere.

00;46;23;01 - 00;46;30;29 Aaron And, you know, it's great to be able to watch them explore new ways to do it. But I definitely think that this is his, his best work, in my opinion.

00;46;31;01 - 00;46;59;08 Chris Yeah. I don't like to pontificate about the importance of the collector or inhabit that, that sort of persona, because I think it gets overwrought and overblown. But as a collector, right. Like, I do feel really good buying the work of someone, knowing that it's a positive signal in their development that not only is the financial support good, but the fact that, like, people are collecting the work, appreciating the word tells them they're on the right path to keep pushing ahead.

00;46;59;11 - 00;47;12;09 Pri Yeah, I completely agree. I really like this work. I got to say, cathedral study is very good too. I would check it out. I like really like that that that that body works of his to let's call her his passion. I like it.

00;47;12;11 - 00;47;31;19 Chris All right gang, I feel like we covered some really good ground today. We we did a little bit on economy. We did, some some I, we got a few shots in, politically, socially. We stuck to our knitting. We talked a lot about Songster. We loved, Eric's new work. We're excited for Marfa. And so all in all, I feel like this was a pod.

00;47;31;21 - 00;47;32;20 Aaron Good job guys.

00;47;32;23 - 00;47;33;18 Pri We came.

00;47;33;20 - 00;47;38;04 Chris We plotted. And for you. What is this? And what is the name of our pod?

00;47;38;08 - 00;47;52;14 Pri Yes, this is nuts. I say is the podcast on art, digital art, culture, news, economy, AI, tech and more. Just as a quick reminder, these thoughts and opinions are our own and not of our employer. Let's go.

00;47;52;16 - 00;47;53;05 Aaron Let's go.

00;47;53;05 - 00;47;54;11 Chris Let's go baby.

00;47;54;14 - 00;48;04;26 Aaron All right. Good. All right okay. Yes.

00;48;04;29 - 00;48;09;05 Pri So, I cover all.