# Farcaster Community Town Hall — Brief & Summary

Source: https://gist.github.com/floAr/75ce5a625249a66a79be511e8e54018b

## Summary

Cassie is preparing a formal proposal for Neynar to hand over Farcaster to a transition vehicle that would cut infrastructure costs, raise outside capital, and create a new org to keep building the client. Nothing has been agreed, and Neynar has not yet decided, though other bidders may exist. Cassie says the network currently costs about $100k per month against a few thousand daily active users, while Quorum runs on Hypersnap for $200 per month. The proposal also includes collapsing Snapchain into Hypersnap and merging the Farcaster and Quorum clients, and Cassie has ruled out Clanker. Participants also pressed on onboarding friction and whether technical focus alone can drive growth.

## Article

Farcaster Community Town Hall — Brief & Summary

Source: 01a01751-e882-4570-01ca-2caa06ffd84c.mp3 · 2:05:21 · ~20,400 words Format: Live audio space, open participation, recorded. Convened by Cassie (Cassandra Heart — Quilibrium; creator of the Hypersnap fork and the Quorum client; formerly on the Farcaster team at Merkle), standing in for Peachy, who normally runs the state-of-the-union calls and is recovering. Occasion: Neynar has publicly signalled it is stepping back from stewarding Farcaster and looking for a successor.

No speaker diarization was run, so attributions below are inferred from context. Named participants: Cassie (lead), JD (co-host/questioner), Royal, Flannel Donut, plus Woofy, Glenn, Dean, Kenny, CoolBeans, Eggman, ZKMAC, Haberdashery and others. Non-participants discussed: Rish (Neynar), Dan and Varun (Merkle-era Farcaster).

THE BRIEF

The one thing to know

Cassie is assembling a formal proposal to Neynar to take over Farcaster via a transition vehicle: Neynar capitalizes it for a few months to keep the lights on while her group (a) slashes infrastructure costs, (b) raises outside capital, and (c) stands up a new org to keep building the client. Nothing is agreed. It is Neynar's decision, other bidders may exist, and the group must move fast.

The proposal, in three priorities

Get costs down so Farcaster can self-sustain. Neynar's reported run rate is ~$100k/month. Quorum runs at ~$200/month. Cassie calls the delta "more than overkill."

Collapse Snapchain into Hypersnap. End the fork tug-of-war — one protocol, no more parity maintenance. Hypersnap is a strict superset of Snapchain (it doesn't prune, so storage fees don't apply).

Merge the Farcaster and Quorum clients and staff a new org to maintain them. Farcaster adopts Quorum's features; the privacy-hostile, expensive pieces (analytics, over-collecting RPC providers) come out.

Explicitly out of scope: Clanker

Cassie will not take it on. Not hostility to the concept — a meme-coin launcher simply shouldn't be run by the team running a social protocol, and the compliance burden is severe even under a "meme coins are legally valid" reading. She suggests it go to whoever genuinely wants it.

Where the $100k/month goes (as she understands it)

Blockaid wallet-warning service (~$100k/yr class contracts) · Datadog analytics · ElastiCache Redis layer · redundant backend instances · a Postgres relational indexer sitting on top of Snapchain · Cloudflare image and video hosting · the ML feed-ranking pipeline. All against ~2–3k daily active users, spam and non-spam alike.

The technical thesis

Most of that cost exists because the protocol under-serves clients. Push opt-in secondary indexes down into Hypersnap nodes and tens of thousands of dollars a month evaporate — proven, she argues, by Quorum running on Hypersnap at $200/month. Her framing: not fat protocols, but "minimum viable protocol for servicing a client — if you can't run a client directly off the protocol, the protocol isn't complete."

Roadmap items raised:

Proof-of-work PR shipping ASAP; enables free signups via alternative on-protocol ID registries (still Optimism-contract-compatible, so FIDs and fnames survive a change of ownership). Bridges to any EVM chain, Solana, or Quilibrium. Multiple audit rounds already done.

Direct casts on protocol. She wrote the DC FIP and shipped it in Quorum. Her claim: more actives use DMs than cast publicly — that, not the feed, is Farcaster's real differentiator.

Third-party feed providers at protocol level (her old "Opportunity for Another Curator" FIP) — publish a link to a feed, let clients mix and match.

Snap Compute FIP — a VM on protocol for interactive "software as content" on a semi-uniform substrate; on-chain components could themselves be sold.

Q Storage (Quilibrium, S3-compatible) for image/video to displace Cloudflare, with CSAM screening via threshold private set intersection over blinded perceptual hashes.

The pushback that mattered

Royal: the call is too deep in the weeds. What made Farcaster work was people and friendships, not architecture. Real risk of shrinking to a diehard technical niche with no growth. Say what you will about Dan, he kept the team focused on user experience well enough to grow. Also: Cassie cannot shoulder this alone, decisions need collective consensus, and the community needs a "social immune system" against opportunistic takeover.

Flannel Donut: bounced off Farcaster twice years ago — it read as elitist, "a club." Came back for genuine human engagement (her example: posting photos of her tomatoes). Would happily pay an annual fee. But on tokenomics: "what you're saying sounds really cool, but I don't get it — and I feel like I might be an average user." The education barrier is as real as the financial one, and on-chain projects have failed at marketing almost across the board.

A participant on revenue (extended): Farcaster charges far too little (0.1% vs 0.5% elsewhere) and needs internally generated revenue. Separately and pointedly — leadership should be careful what it publishes; broadcasting distress accelerates departures, as happened with Bankr.

"Why not merge with ATProto / rebuild from scratch?" Cassie: merging collapses the culture, which is the one thing you can't rebuild; and Farcaster has real accumulated goodwill and brand recognition. "It's our dumpster fire."

On monetization, where Cassie draws the line

Not opposed to a Farcaster Pro–style paid tier. Opposed to protocol-level feature gating — paying for more embeds per cast, or profile ornamentation, is "obscene" to her because it limits users' ability to communicate. Quorum Apex is her model instead: a Discord Nitro equivalent with a revenue split back to the communities you're in and the client developers, no in-app advantage. And a flat fee excludes regions that can't pay it — hence the Snap token design, where node runners, users and builders earn rather than subscribe.

Go-to-market, restated as the actual bottleneck

Onboarding friction is the top problem. Stop putting the crypto wallet in the signup path. Make following someone you just met at a party trivial — QR codes, NFC tap. Steal Bluesky's screenshot-watermark funnel hack. "These are not hard things to do. We should be doing them." Target unchanged: 1M users on Farcaster in Hypersnap's first year.

On why Neynar is leaving

Cassie deliberately shut down speculation. Rish stated on a prior dev call that Neynar had ample runway, and confirmed the wind-down was not runway-related. She attributes it to founder burnout plus life circumstances (Rish has a newborn), notes Farcaster's survival was existential for Neynar in the first place, and adds that much of the public gloating comes from people running competing crypto-social protocols.

Open questions she flagged

What does the $100k/month actually cover — infra only, or infra plus Neynar's own services plus labor?

Who else is bidding? No other offer has surfaced publicly.

Who is available to build, immediately, if the deal moves fast?

Funding: open to VCs, but not ones that force token deals — "practically all of them do."

Calls to action

Action Who

Join the proposal group chats (core Hypersnap chat + a second; invite-only due to trolls) Credibly interested orgs and individuals — DM Cassie

Assemble and send the proposal to Neynar Cassie + collaborators, quickly

Take a deeper go-to-market role Royal (invited on the call, accepted to talk in DMs)

Hypersnap client integration support Any client builder — existing: Quorum, Stupid Social, Lectern (Mac desktop), HeroCast

Regardless of outcome: Hypersnap continues, the SNAP token continues, Quorum continues. Cassie was explicit and repeated this several times.

THE SUMMARY

The call opened as an unstructured lobby — Cassie noted she was standing in for Peachy and that this wouldn't run the usual way — and JD set the frame with a question that shaped the next two hours: if you had total control and didn't have to give up the keys, what do you get done in the first 30 days?

Cassie's answer went straight to economics [04:18–14:34]. She and the Neynar team disagreed on the path, she said, but agreed on the destination: Farcaster as a credibly neutral, decentralized public good that can self-sustain. The obstacle is that running it currently costs about $100k/month against a few thousand daily actives, and she itemized where that goes — Blockaid, Datadog, ElastiCache, redundant backends, a Postgres indexer, Cloudflare media. Her core argument: those costs are downstream of a protocol that doesn't serve clients well enough, so every client operator has to rebuild the same expensive scaffolding. Push opt-in secondary indexes into Hypersnap nodes and the bill collapses — Quorum, she noted, runs on $200/month.

JD pressed a level deeper [10:26], asking why analytics and wallet warnings need to exist at all, and offering a north star: the genuinely useful asset is a global namespace on blockchain rails with strong enough guarantees to move value, decentralized enough to persist as long as people want it to. That reframing ran through the rest of the call and surfaced the recurring theme — what belongs on the protocol versus in clients. Cassie's position [24:50]: not fat protocols, but a protocol complete enough that you can actually run a client off it. She's lived the alternative; building Quorum taught her how much the protocol doesn't offer, and that gap is what makes competing clients uneconomic.

Concrete protocol wants followed: third-party feed providers via her "Opportunity for Another Curator" FIP [18:37], direct casts on protocol [35:00] — with her striking claim that DM actives likely exceed casting actives, making messaging the real differentiator — and the Snap Compute VM for interactive content [39:02]. JD's synthesis: the promised land is one persistent identity core with a WhatsApp-shaped client, a Discord-shaped client and a Twitter-shaped client all on top, rather than one team trying to build the apex app that lives on a billion home screens. Both agreed that chasing the latter was Merkle's strategic error.

The concrete proposal landed at [28:57]: a transition vehicle Neynar capitalizes for a few months, cost reduction, Snapchain folded into Hypersnap, a new org to keep the client alive, and the Farcaster and Quorum clients merged. Cassie preemptively ruled out Clanker [30:57] and defended the exclusion on both focus and compliance grounds — a position several participants welcomed.

The call's center of gravity shifted at [45:08], when Royal argued the technical detail was crowding out the actual question. People came to Farcaster for people. He'd made more real friendships there than anywhere. Without a polished, unified front door and table-stakes quality, the network shrinks to the diehards. Cassie agreed without conceding the technical framing — the architecture talk was in service of sustainability first, then aggressive growth — and then made the point concrete [49:15–53:23]: her own husband dislikes the app and complains daily; onboarding must stop routing through a crypto wallet; following someone should be a QR scan or an NFC tap. Being normie-friendly, she argued, doesn't require an eternal September.

After a platform crash cost about five minutes [59:36–64:38], Flannel Donut gave the call its most quoted stretch. She'd joined years ago and left almost immediately — it felt like a club she wasn't in. What brought her back was the ordinary human texture: someone posting a photo of tomatoes from their garden, and her posting hers. She'd gladly pay an annual fee. That opened the monetization thread [68:41–81:25], where Cassie distinguished revenue models she supports (Quorum Apex, a Nitro-style subscription with a revenue split to communities and client devs) from Farcaster Pro's protocol-level feature gating, which she considers illegitimate because it limits communication itself. Flannel Donut then delivered the sharpest critique on the call — she found the token vision genuinely appealing and genuinely incomprehensible, suspected she was the average user, and named marketing as the across-the-board failure of on-chain projects. Cassie took it as useful feedback on communication rather than substance.

The last third handled the meta-questions. Why is Neynar leaving? Cassie carefully corrected the record — Rish had confirmed ample runway and that the decision wasn't runway-related — and attributed it to burnout and life, declining to speculate further [91:39–102:17]. Why not just rebuild, or merge into ATProto? Because you'd be trading away the culture and the goodwill, which are the parts you can't rebuild [34:59, 81:25]. One participant made an extended case that Farcaster undercharges and needs organic revenue, and warned that publishing distress signals is itself corrosive; Cassie agreed on revenue, noted that neither Merkle nor Neynar was ever insolvent so revenue was never the trigger, and observed that much of the public eulogizing came from operators of competing protocols [104:26–116:51].

She closed with calls to action [104:26] and a commitment repeated throughout: whatever Neynar decides, Hypersnap, the SNAP token and Quorum continue. The proposal needs to be assembled fast, credibly interested parties should reach out, and — in her framing — this is the moment when parties that have been working in silos can finally converge. "Long live the internet and long live Farcaster."

Farcaster Community Town Hall — Verbatim Transcript

Source file: 01a01751-e882-4570-01ca-2caa06ffd84c.mp3 Duration: 2:05:21 · Segments: 1,535 · Spoken words: ~20,400 Transcription: faster-whisper distil-large-v3 (int8, CPU), beam size 5, VAD-filtered, language: English

Notes on this transcript

No speaker diarization. This was a live audio space with many participants and frequent overlap; segments are timestamped but not attributed. Speaker changes are usually inferable from context (question/answer turns, name checks).

Proper nouns normalized. The model consistently mis-rendered domain terms. The following were corrected globally: Farcaster (from "Farkaster/FACASTA/Forecaster/VARCaster"), Neynar ("Nainar/NANR/Nenna"), Snapchain ("Snapchat"), Hypersnap, Quilibrium, Clanker ("Clinker"), Merkle, Blockaid ("Blockade"), ElastiCache, Datadog, Bluesky, Rish, Peachy, Flannel Donut, Digg, TweetDeck, Pump.fun. Wording is otherwise unedited.

Two genuine Snapchat references are preserved at ~00:53:45 (the QR-code onboarding aside) — every other instance refers to Snapchain.

Low-confidence names left as heard, flag if you know the right spelling: "Felarami", "Archibod", "Trissel", "Woofy/Zawofi", "Bradkew", "ZKMAC", "SACC crypt", "Senior Jack", "Eggman", "CoolBeans", "Lectern", "Kathy" (~02:14), "berserker"/"empire builder" (~30:57), "banker" (~112:49, probably Bankr).

Two audio dropouts occurred on the host platform: a gap at 00:59:36–01:04:38 (space crashed mid-story) and assorted glitches noted by participants throughout.

Transcript

[00:00:14.290 --> 00:00:44.910] Hey, everybody. I don't know if folks can hear me. So I'm going to just wait for somebody to, okay, cool. Wow. Okay, that was fast. Damn. Okay. All right. So I'm going to go ahead and get started. And normally, Peachy does these kind of state of the union calls. And I know she's recovering and I wish her a very speedy recovery. But I don't know if this is going to be quite the, [00:00:44.930 --> 00:00:49.030] the same way that it's normally run. [00:00:49.630 --> 00:00:56.130] So I'm just going to go ahead and start things off with some open banter and chat [00:00:56.130 --> 00:01:02.490] while folks are coming in and just wanted to ask first and foremost, [00:01:02.790 --> 00:01:04.350] like, how are you all feeling? [00:01:04.730 --> 00:01:09.870] So I'm going to go ahead and bring on people who have requested to speak if you want to speak [00:01:09.870 --> 00:01:10.870] by all means. [00:01:27.550 --> 00:01:29.090] What a time to be alive. [00:01:29.850 --> 00:01:30.750] No kidding. [00:01:31.090 --> 00:01:52.930] Yeah, my initial thought was that if you go to you, like, to be completely rounded. [00:01:55.670 --> 00:02:00.740] I was actually pleased to see that Rish wasn't dismissive when you actually told me that idea. [00:02:01.020 --> 00:02:03.680] And I was just kind of wondering what we could do to make it happen. [00:02:06.760 --> 00:02:14.790] Yeah, and I mean, like, that's definitely something I want to discuss in detail after, like, folks have come in. [00:02:14.790 --> 00:02:20.030] I'm giving, like, you know, three more minutes before we, like, dive into the minutia of the plans. [00:02:20.030 --> 00:02:32.210] You may have accidentally self-muted there. [00:02:32.790 --> 00:02:34.370] No, no, the app crashed. [00:02:37.670 --> 00:02:39.490] Hey, at least you got reprimoded the host, though. [00:02:40.050 --> 00:02:40.230] Yeah. [00:02:40.890 --> 00:02:41.930] They fix that bug. [00:02:46.140 --> 00:02:47.240] Check one, two. Check one, too. [00:02:50.800 --> 00:02:51.220] Hey, buddy. [00:02:54.010 --> 00:02:55.730] Woofie, yeah. No, no kidding. [00:02:59.290 --> 00:03:01.850] All right, let me see. [00:03:01.850 --> 00:03:05.950] Thank you for suggesting to use the first few minutes as sort of a lobby, Kathy. [00:03:06.110 --> 00:03:09.490] That was actually exactly the thought we had five minutes ago. [00:03:09.490 --> 00:03:12.330] and cast to that effect. [00:03:13.610 --> 00:03:16.190] The future version of a space has got to have a lobby. [00:03:16.810 --> 00:03:18.550] It's got to have a place for people to mill around [00:03:18.550 --> 00:03:22.190] their way for the nominal purposes. [00:03:26.540 --> 00:03:28.500] I'm going to go ahead and repost the link. [00:03:30.910 --> 00:03:34.530] I made the mistake of trying to start the other space [00:03:34.530 --> 00:03:37.650] and it for some reason was refusing to start, [00:03:37.770 --> 00:03:40.430] so I left it and it just closed to the space out. [00:03:40.430 --> 00:03:44.330] So some people are probably trying to join on the other link. [00:03:44.330 --> 00:03:46.010] I'm trying to... [00:03:46.010 --> 00:03:46.790] There are two links? [00:03:47.190 --> 00:03:49.170] I only see one in the... [00:03:49.170 --> 00:03:49.410] Yeah. [00:03:49.410 --> 00:03:51.890] Yeah, no, I got the notification and I immediately joined [00:03:51.890 --> 00:03:53.190] and you're right. [00:03:53.690 --> 00:03:55.230] It immediately just died. [00:04:02.980 --> 00:04:04.260] What... [00:04:04.260 --> 00:04:07.550] I think a good question to ask, folks. [00:04:09.160 --> 00:04:10.240] Hey, quick mic check on my end. [00:04:10.280 --> 00:04:10.740] Everything good? [00:04:11.260 --> 00:04:11.740] Hey, Royale. [00:04:12.640 --> 00:04:13.400] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:04:14.650 --> 00:04:15.250] What's up, boys? [00:04:18.780 --> 00:04:20.160] Benevolent dictator for life. [00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:22.940] This sort of feels like a good question, right? [00:04:22.940 --> 00:04:25.380] If you had, let's say you had [00:04:25.380 --> 00:04:27.440] you had total control [00:04:27.440 --> 00:04:28.440] and you didn't have to [00:04:28.440 --> 00:04:31.480] give up the keys? What do you get done [00:04:31.480 --> 00:04:34.380] in the first 30 days? [00:04:35.710 --> 00:04:36.650] Yeah, I guess we're [00:04:36.650 --> 00:04:38.870] already at the five minute mark so we can go ahead [00:04:38.870 --> 00:04:39.590] and dive into that. [00:04:40.650 --> 00:04:42.860] So, I mean, first and foremost, [00:04:42.860 --> 00:04:44.740] I think, like, although we [00:04:44.740 --> 00:04:46.900] disagreed on the path [00:04:46.900 --> 00:04:48.700] to get there, we [00:04:48.700 --> 00:04:50.620] certainly both, [00:04:50.620 --> 00:04:52.640] like, you know, Neynar team and [00:04:52.640 --> 00:04:54.960] myself, like, we believed [00:04:54.960 --> 00:05:00.680] that the future of Farcaster needs to be credibly neutral and decentralized. [00:05:01.240 --> 00:05:06.100] Now, how and what that looked like? Very different story. But at the end of the day, [00:05:06.200 --> 00:05:11.740] the purpose is that Farcaster as a public good protocol should be able to self-sustain. [00:05:12.540 --> 00:05:17.460] And part of that, yeah, CoolBeans, actually, you're raising exactly the point. [00:05:17.460 --> 00:05:26.980] the OPEX for Farcaster's Infra, at least on the NAR side, I think, I mean, I don't know full details of it. [00:05:27.100 --> 00:05:29.700] Like, Rish didn't run through it. [00:05:29.700 --> 00:05:34.200] And I remember what it was back in the days that I worked at Merkle. [00:05:34.420 --> 00:05:36.780] It was very expensive to run Farcaster's Infra. [00:05:37.260 --> 00:05:42.780] But there's two very distinct things of note about that fact. [00:05:42.780 --> 00:05:44.960] one was of course we had [00:05:44.960 --> 00:05:46.800] hundreds of thousands of users [00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:48.440] every day and [00:05:48.440 --> 00:05:50.560] especially with base [00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:52.960] pouring in a bunch of users as well [00:05:52.960 --> 00:05:57.320] you can make whatever comment you want about that [00:05:57.320 --> 00:05:59.080] I prefer to go with the eternal [00:05:59.080 --> 00:06:00.240] September route but [00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:03.340] never the last. Yeah that's the right direction [00:06:03.340 --> 00:06:05.000] because that will always be the case [00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:06.640] yeah I mean like [00:06:06.640 --> 00:06:08.720] you know any culture that's like [00:06:08.720 --> 00:06:10.780] relatively insular [00:06:10.780 --> 00:06:15.940] and very niche in interest. [00:06:16.140 --> 00:06:18.220] Whenever you expose it to a larger audience, [00:06:18.320 --> 00:06:19.680] it's going to hit a culture shock. [00:06:20.340 --> 00:06:23.860] I feel like there's some examples from history, [00:06:24.020 --> 00:06:27.500] like of course, AOL to use net, that didn't go well. [00:06:27.500 --> 00:06:30.340] But there's some instances where it was handled pretty well. [00:06:30.580 --> 00:06:36.020] I think Reddit was one of those cases that was actually handled pretty well [00:06:36.020 --> 00:06:40.180] when they were just getting started and the big influx from Digg happened. [00:06:41.900 --> 00:06:43.900] Yeah, go. Oh, my God. [00:06:45.380 --> 00:06:52.160] So, yeah, it's an interesting challenge for sure, but, like, at the same time, like, that's not the current state of things. [00:06:52.260 --> 00:06:54.080] Like, a bunch of users have left. [00:06:55.080 --> 00:07:03.760] And so, like I've said in replies and threads, like, you know, the cost for running quorum is 200 bucks a month. [00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:07.220] But that's alighting over some details that are really important. [00:07:07.220 --> 00:07:11.880] And these are things that Farcaster does rely on, especially the Neynar version. [00:07:11.900 --> 00:07:20.800] of the Farcaster app, it does rely on that, you know, we don't necessarily either provide or won't provide. [00:07:21.380 --> 00:07:25.940] So structurally breaking things down because you asked like, what does the next 30 days look like? [00:07:26.140 --> 00:07:27.260] Yeah, right. [00:07:27.820 --> 00:07:28.220] Assuming. [00:07:28.860 --> 00:07:32.260] Yeah, if you get to wave a wand and you get total control, what happens? [00:07:32.740 --> 00:07:32.940] Yeah. [00:07:32.940 --> 00:07:41.600] So, like, from my perspective, like, obviously, like, they say the run rate is about 100K a month. [00:07:41.900 --> 00:07:45.790] And that's more than overkill. [00:07:46.310 --> 00:07:50.670] But part of that overkill comes from some very expensive services. [00:07:50.830 --> 00:07:55.810] So you've got Blockaid for wallet warnings for like malicious daps and so on. [00:07:56.110 --> 00:07:57.830] That's a very expensive thing. [00:07:57.830 --> 00:08:04.230] I tried to, I tried to reach out to Blockaid because obviously we're trying to, you know, [00:08:04.330 --> 00:08:09.910] make a wallet of equal measure on Quorum and very like bootstrapped team. [00:08:09.910 --> 00:08:18.170] We don't really have the ability to pay, you know, $100,000 contracts every year for services like that. [00:08:18.710 --> 00:08:25.650] And so it is a challenge, not to mention that, you know, Quorum is a very privacy-focused app. [00:08:25.650 --> 00:08:30.790] And so, like, a lot of the, you know, wallet services out there, they don't care about privacy. [00:08:31.030 --> 00:08:32.210] Like, that's not their objective. [00:08:32.330 --> 00:08:35.250] That's not what they, you know, intend to do anything for. [00:08:35.410 --> 00:08:39.890] And so by consequence, like, you can't ensure user privacy and at the same time you cost a crap load. [00:08:39.910 --> 00:08:41.790] So we don't use blockade. [00:08:42.690 --> 00:08:44.910] Neynar does, and it's understandable why, [00:08:45.590 --> 00:08:47.170] but it's very expensive. [00:08:47.910 --> 00:08:49.510] Analytics are very expensive. [00:08:51.210 --> 00:08:54.000] And then the architecture of Farcaster itself, [00:08:54.160 --> 00:08:55.040] like high level. [00:08:55.940 --> 00:08:57.320] Oh, okay, hell yeah, Glenn. [00:08:57.480 --> 00:08:59.340] I'll DM you about that. [00:09:01.240 --> 00:09:04.160] So, yeah, those things are expensive, [00:09:04.160 --> 00:09:07.640] but the architecture of Farcaster, [00:09:07.940 --> 00:09:09.160] at least the Neynar version, [00:09:09.160 --> 00:09:14.920] I don't know the, I don't know the internals of how, like, you know, [00:09:14.980 --> 00:09:17.200] Neynar's, like, pre-MERC acquisition, [00:09:18.200 --> 00:09:21.040] Neynar's other services are in terms of cost, [00:09:21.100 --> 00:09:22.540] and if that's part of that 100K, [00:09:23.080 --> 00:09:26.800] but at least on the, on the, like, you know, [00:09:27.000 --> 00:09:28.240] Merkle acquisition side, [00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:32.820] the costs there, back when I was on the team, [00:09:32.820 --> 00:09:37.620] I know it came down to really, like I said, [00:09:37.620 --> 00:09:42.920] analytics Datadog was very expensive which i mean anybody can attest to that that's ever had to work [00:09:42.920 --> 00:09:46.660] in a company that uses Datadog and has seen the bills for it it's it's fucking ridiculous [00:09:46.660 --> 00:09:54.920] um then there's also a bunch of uh like overlaying services to you know make make the app very [00:09:54.920 --> 00:10:00.540] responsive to users so you have a high level redis cache uh that they're using ElastiCache probably [00:10:00.540 --> 00:10:03.860] still actually i know they are because uh rish recently mentioned that they were [00:10:03.860 --> 00:10:07.280] upgrading their ElastiCache instance and that's that's pretty expensive [00:10:07.620 --> 00:10:11.980] Do you mind if I ask a question, basically? [00:10:13.220 --> 00:10:15.040] Most of my questions are going to be, [00:10:15.220 --> 00:10:18.780] they're going to sound like an overenthusiastic 12-year-old [00:10:18.780 --> 00:10:21.300] in terms of technical scale, but bear with me. [00:10:21.720 --> 00:10:25.720] If we just focus on the two things that you pointed out, [00:10:26.360 --> 00:10:30.580] is analytics and the wallet warning services. [00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:34.140] If we go a level under that and ask, [00:10:34.140 --> 00:10:37.100] why do those things need to exist? [00:10:37.100 --> 00:10:40.660] that's the next thing I'd like to hear from you [00:10:40.660 --> 00:10:43.840] and I'll give you sort of a North Star point of view [00:10:43.840 --> 00:10:46.480] for that question and any other ones. [00:10:47.140 --> 00:10:50.480] As far as I'm concerned, the fundamentally useful asset here [00:10:50.480 --> 00:10:52.620] is a global namespace [00:10:52.620 --> 00:10:57.760] that runs on top of blockchain technology [00:10:57.760 --> 00:11:02.820] such that you can, with sufficient guarantees, [00:11:02.820 --> 00:11:05.220] move value between users, [00:11:05.220 --> 00:11:11.020] running on an architecture that is sufficiently decentralized, right, like in a nutshell. [00:11:11.020 --> 00:11:15.500] So in the sense of like, as long as there's a critical mass of human beings on the planet [00:11:15.500 --> 00:11:22.460] who are interested in that protocol perpetuating, it will continue to be self-sustaining, right? [00:11:22.840 --> 00:11:28.220] So if that's the, like, the core thing that as far as I'm concerned is most useful, [00:11:28.800 --> 00:11:35.160] because I could go spin up like a client that allows me to interact with that protocol [00:11:35.160 --> 00:11:39.380] of my own time and free will, and it would just fucking work, right? [00:11:39.420 --> 00:11:43.380] It's just a number of, like, for me, it's about how many tokens do I need to spend [00:11:43.380 --> 00:11:48.200] in order for it to be basically functional, as opposed to selling, like, a highly polished [00:11:48.200 --> 00:11:52.680] thing that lives inside of Apple's App Store and Google's Play Store. [00:11:53.620 --> 00:11:58.820] Like, why do we need a wallet built in to the client? [00:11:58.940 --> 00:12:03.400] Why do we need analytics built into the infra? [00:12:03.400 --> 00:12:06.400] Is that sufficient? [00:12:06.400 --> 00:12:09.400] Can I restate the questions to make sure that I understand really quick? [00:12:09.400 --> 00:12:10.400] Please. [00:12:10.400 --> 00:12:14.470] So what you're saying is like two opposing points, right? [00:12:14.470 --> 00:12:20.470] One, jumping back to Cassie's original, or the question originally about it, Cassie's, [00:12:20.470 --> 00:12:21.470] what do we do in the next 30 days? [00:12:21.470 --> 00:12:30.470] And then additionally, the question of what is the core offering that Farcaster provides as a value [00:12:30.470 --> 00:12:33.470] as opposed to all the stuff that's been, I apologize for the traffic noise in the back, [00:12:33.470 --> 00:12:51.490] background. All of the, all of the stuff that's been piled on top of Farcaster that can be stripped away or ignored while still maintaining what we consider a core experience or a core, like, net value add to what everybody's doing. Is that, is that fair? [00:12:53.260 --> 00:13:04.380] Prey small sale. That's, that's the whole ballgame, right? Because that's a cost-cutting ballgame, and that's a, like, assume this thing, like, assume the worst-case scenario, right? It winds up in the hands of, [00:13:04.400 --> 00:13:08.140] of some entity that doesn't hold the same cultural values [00:13:08.140 --> 00:13:10.160] that those of us that have hung around here long enough do, [00:13:10.640 --> 00:13:16.440] and we have to, like, put energy around Cassie and Corum [00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:18.100] and Hypersnap instead. [00:13:19.020 --> 00:13:21.100] I want to understand those Norths. [00:13:21.100 --> 00:13:21.940] Isn't that kind of what we're discussing? [00:13:22.380 --> 00:13:24.460] Cassie, like, correct me if I'm wrong, [00:13:24.540 --> 00:13:28.180] but the assumption is that we're going to push towards hypersnap, right? [00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:29.380] Like, that's the idea? [00:13:30.020 --> 00:13:31.740] Yeah, and I was actually going to get to that point. [00:13:31.740 --> 00:13:34.060] So the reason why I was bringing up infrastructure costs [00:13:34.060 --> 00:13:36.060] and the whole, like, next 30 days thing. [00:13:36.600 --> 00:13:39.980] So, like, architecturally, if you look at how far cast or at least used to be, [00:13:40.020 --> 00:13:45.160] I'm sure it's pretty close to it right now, there's some pretty big costs that are just [00:13:45.160 --> 00:13:48.860] infrastructural on the actual, like, app side. [00:13:48.860 --> 00:13:55.620] So you have a back end that is indexing all of the Snapchain data and basically, like, [00:13:55.660 --> 00:13:58.760] formatting it in a way that makes client presentment fast. [00:13:58.900 --> 00:14:01.760] So you have, like, an upper-level cache with ElastiCache. [00:14:01.860 --> 00:14:02.420] That's expensive. [00:14:02.420 --> 00:14:06.780] You have multiple back-end instances for redundancy. [00:14:07.280 --> 00:14:08.920] That in of itself is also expensive, [00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:14.440] especially when we've got like 2 to 3,000 daily active users spam and non-spam alike. [00:14:16.060 --> 00:14:19.960] Then you also have the underlying Postgres instance [00:14:19.960 --> 00:14:24.620] that is formatting that data in a relational way compared to Snapchain, [00:14:24.820 --> 00:14:25.840] which does not do that. [00:14:27.040 --> 00:14:30.440] And a lot of these things, and it's the same point that I made [00:14:30.440 --> 00:14:34.340] when I was starting the Hypersnap project in the first place, [00:14:34.500 --> 00:14:38.960] is that a lot of those problems that exist that require all that extra infra [00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:46.760] comes actually from the fact that the protocol itself does not sufficiently serve client needs. [00:14:47.380 --> 00:14:49.800] And my argument, in the argument I've actually proven, [00:14:49.940 --> 00:14:53.060] because now Quorum is running and using Hypersnap just fine, [00:14:54.260 --> 00:14:57.300] is that you can actually do a lot of engineering work, [00:14:57.300 --> 00:15:00.420] and not actually, not even a lot, but you can do the engineering work [00:15:00.440 --> 00:15:02.740] on the protocol itself [00:15:02.740 --> 00:15:04.420] where people who are running [00:15:04.420 --> 00:15:06.680] hypersnap nodes can opt in [00:15:06.680 --> 00:15:08.760] like if they want to run a client that targets [00:15:08.760 --> 00:15:10.320] a hypersnap node like their own, [00:15:10.780 --> 00:15:12.720] they can opt in to enable those [00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:14.920] secondary indexes [00:15:14.920 --> 00:15:16.180] that give you all of that. [00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:18.780] And so you literally like obviate [00:15:18.780 --> 00:15:22.560] you know at least tens of thousands of dollars a month [00:15:22.560 --> 00:15:24.500] in spend. And that's why like our [00:15:24.500 --> 00:15:27.140] operating cost for quorum is literally like $200 a month. [00:15:28.380 --> 00:15:30.500] You're talking about sort of spreading [00:15:30.500 --> 00:15:36.820] the indexer role, like making the indexing function distributed such that, you know, the compute [00:15:36.820 --> 00:15:39.180] burden is not as acute? [00:15:39.380 --> 00:15:42.340] Yeah, I mean, like, it doesn't even actually have to be that complicated at the moment. [00:15:42.540 --> 00:15:46.340] Like right now, hypersnap, we don't have separate shards. [00:15:46.340 --> 00:15:53.960] So it's still, like, one-to-one with Snapchain, we've got, you know, shard zero, one, and two, [00:15:54.060 --> 00:15:56.880] which are the only shards that exist currently under the snapchain design. [00:15:56.880 --> 00:16:00.840] every note is replicating those things. [00:16:01.040 --> 00:16:02.540] And so by consequence... [00:16:02.540 --> 00:16:04.380] Yeah, there's not replicate versus read. [00:16:04.380 --> 00:16:11.500] Right. And so there is read replicas being formed on Hypersnap of Shard 0,1, and 2, [00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:15.380] in a formatted way that makes client delivery very fast. [00:16:15.940 --> 00:16:20.240] The other side to that, another big expense that comes from running a social media app [00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:26.960] in terms of surfacing good content that users want would be the ML pipeline necessary to [00:16:26.980 --> 00:16:33.140] you know, feed from users' interests and build the actual feed for the users. Now, I know Kenny [00:16:33.140 --> 00:16:37.040] is a huge, I don't know if you're on the call right now, Kenny, if you are, this is your shout-out, [00:16:37.100 --> 00:16:42.800] but like, I know Kenny, you talked about the chronological feed. And I actually really like [00:16:42.800 --> 00:16:47.580] the chronological feed. It's why Quorum uses the chronological feed. But ideally, users should [00:16:47.580 --> 00:16:54.780] have a choice in that. We actually have a, we back in the, I think like November or December of last [00:16:54.780 --> 00:17:00.940] here, I made a proposal on how we can actually encode different styles of feed generation and [00:17:00.940 --> 00:17:06.440] curation at the protocol level. That's, of course, further ahead. [00:17:07.940 --> 00:17:14.720] I mean, not to stick on that particular point, but in your mind, is there an architectural [00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:21.740] advantage to doing that as opposed to pushing feed generation, which, like, I'm just going [00:17:21.740 --> 00:17:23.180] to use a really simplified word. [00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:29.300] The shuffle option, because, like, at the most basic level, that's what we're talking [00:17:29.300 --> 00:17:29.600] about. [00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:35.520] You either play the CD and it's track one, two, and three, i.e., any's in my happy place [00:17:35.520 --> 00:17:40.700] of RevCron data, or you press the shuffle version and you get some randomized sorting [00:17:40.700 --> 00:17:42.400] of the same set of information. [00:17:42.740 --> 00:17:47.500] Isn't that a thing that you could sort of push that functionality off to the edge and [00:17:47.500 --> 00:17:51.460] make the clients do the work of developing that, as opposed to having to hold it [00:17:51.460 --> 00:17:55.900] centrally? Because my assumption is you hold it centrally, your sort of complexity and cost [00:17:55.900 --> 00:18:01.040] burdens go off. So it comes down to two things. One, like, at the end of the day, like, we're, [00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:07.080] a lot of the people on Farcaster are very technically minded. And so, like, being able to navigate [00:18:07.080 --> 00:18:14.400] things like, you know, the nuances of feed design, hell, even the fact that this is a decentralized [00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:19.280] protocol, or what makes it credibly decentralized, incredibly neutral. Like, those types of things are [00:18:19.280 --> 00:18:24.060] actually like already going to be lost on your average user. So if you think like Bluesky for example, [00:18:24.060 --> 00:18:31.460] which by the way I saw the mention dean, you said Bluesky has third party feed providers that [00:18:31.460 --> 00:18:37.620] users can plug into. That's exactly what I'm talking about. The FIP was called Opportunity for [00:18:37.620 --> 00:18:43.400] Another Curator. And it's the ID. Yes, of course, like all three of those proposals that I wrote [00:18:43.400 --> 00:18:48.680] at that time were Opportunity for another C of someone. And so [00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:50.380] the idea of [00:18:50.380 --> 00:18:52.880] that you know third party feed [00:18:52.880 --> 00:18:54.660] providers could be not only like [00:18:54.660 --> 00:18:56.940] indexing data however they want but also [00:18:56.940 --> 00:18:58.600] like publishing it [00:18:58.600 --> 00:19:01.100] not the feed itself but like a link [00:19:01.100 --> 00:19:03.640] to access the feed at the protocol level [00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:06.940] is ideal because that way people can mix and match [00:19:06.940 --> 00:19:08.740] get what they want if you want an algo feed [00:19:08.740 --> 00:19:11.380] that's comprised only of users you follow grade [00:19:11.380 --> 00:19:14.580] if you want an algo feed that is like very discovery oriented [00:19:14.580 --> 00:19:18.260] and like hell if you want bogos sort as your algorithm [00:19:18.260 --> 00:19:20.300] them, like, somebody wants to surface it. [00:19:20.380 --> 00:19:21.900] It can surface it, and it can be consumed. [00:19:22.300 --> 00:19:23.380] That's the idea. [00:19:24.020 --> 00:19:27.780] Yeah. I don't know. I don't remember when you authored that, Cassie, [00:19:27.780 --> 00:19:32.500] but that's exactly where our head has been at for over 18 months at this point. [00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:38.600] If you think about the data set, the way people think about music, like the idea that the [00:19:38.600 --> 00:19:45.220] ability to create a playlist or to tune a station based on inputs, like that to me is [00:19:45.220 --> 00:19:51.560] table stakes for a discourse protocol that you're building from scratch in 2026. [00:19:52.320 --> 00:19:58.040] And now I'm going to like briefly dive into an adjacent topic because it affects quorum [00:19:58.040 --> 00:20:08.300] specifically and also the like how do we do this as a you know very like low capitalized [00:20:08.300 --> 00:20:13.880] community driven project like of course obviously the I'll get into the proposal details in a [00:20:13.880 --> 00:20:19.420] sec, like what I'm currently musing on. But the idea that we have in mind for Quorum, especially [00:20:19.420 --> 00:20:26.780] because, you know, since Neynar is going to be winding down, another big expense in the list [00:20:26.780 --> 00:20:31.860] is their usage of, God, I can't remember what the image provider is. There's two of them [00:20:31.860 --> 00:20:36.900] technically, but one of them is Cloudflare, and it also handles video, I believe, or at least [00:20:36.900 --> 00:20:40.520] it did at one point. They may have moved to something else to host video. But at one point, [00:20:40.520 --> 00:20:43.860] it was Cloudflare. Either way, images and video are extremely. [00:20:43.880 --> 00:20:50.160] extremely expensive, and that's not something that the Snapchain or Hypersnap protocols are good to support. [00:20:50.800 --> 00:20:57.360] So the way that we're approaching this for Quorum as part of a, like, you know, self-preservation [00:20:57.360 --> 00:21:03.180] technique in the event that this, you know, that the plan doesn't work out and like it goes to [00:21:03.180 --> 00:21:09.300] somebody else and they just do whatever or even wind down, who knows, our idea is that [00:21:09.300 --> 00:21:15.120] we're going to be using the Q storage service from Quilibrium in order to actually [00:21:15.120 --> 00:21:19.460] host the, like, you know, image and video data. And the reason for that is twofold. [00:21:19.540 --> 00:21:24.040] One, because, like, obviously I developed it. I understand how it works. It's literally S3 [00:21:24.040 --> 00:21:30.360] compatible. But two, because there are certain advantages that Cloudflare provides in their [00:21:30.360 --> 00:21:35.380] hosting services. This is, unfortunately, the gritty reality of social media. I know that [00:21:35.380 --> 00:21:38.420] people don't like to even acknowledge that this is a problem, but it's a serious problem. [00:21:38.420 --> 00:21:39.480] but it's a serious problem. [00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:44.640] Every social media app has to deal with CSAM, and it's unavoidable. [00:21:45.280 --> 00:21:50.820] And so the way that we're thinking about it for Q storage with our image and video hosting [00:21:50.820 --> 00:21:58.520] focused tiers of Q storage is that, because again, we're a privacy-oriented service [00:21:58.520 --> 00:22:03.020] that only intensifies the risk that people could use it for this, [00:22:03.020 --> 00:22:07.520] is that we're going to be going with the threshold private set intersection approach [00:22:07.520 --> 00:22:12.920] of using basically blinded perceptual hashes that Apple created a while back. [00:22:13.160 --> 00:22:18.350] And unfortunately, it didn't really get met with huge fanfare. [00:22:18.590 --> 00:22:20.650] So it is what it is. [00:22:20.690 --> 00:22:21.730] But it was a valid technique. [00:22:21.890 --> 00:22:22.910] It definitely works. [00:22:23.070 --> 00:22:25.590] And it's something that we absolutely could have done. [00:22:27.390 --> 00:22:29.130] But people just didn't choose to do it. [00:22:29.150 --> 00:22:30.150] But we're going to do it for Q Storage. [00:22:30.690 --> 00:22:34.070] And so, like, the line of thinking here is that we're going to leverage Q storage [00:22:34.070 --> 00:22:37.630] for the image and video hosting so that it drives down costs immensely. [00:22:37.870 --> 00:22:47.530] Because, you know, like, the network design of Quilibrium was meant to be literally, like, the original design of it was meant to be an alternative to Discord. [00:22:47.810 --> 00:22:50.790] Like, that's how it all began, and that's how Quorum began, too. [00:22:51.350 --> 00:22:54.720] And so it just makes sense. [00:22:55.160 --> 00:23:04.080] Oh, that makes all the sense of the world. Right. I mean, there's a very plausible future where there's a discord-like experience that runs on top of this protocol. [00:23:04.080 --> 00:23:08.080] So it's good to hear that that's where your head was at when you started sketching. [00:23:08.100 --> 00:23:15.220] it out because again, it's the same fundamental experience that software is providing just in a [00:23:15.220 --> 00:23:22.100] slightly different shape. On that point, I'd love to know, Cassie, what you're kind of lying in the [00:23:22.100 --> 00:23:27.160] sand or at least what you're thinking right now for what the protocol should provide versus [00:23:27.160 --> 00:23:32.240] like what clients should provide. So kind of what are things on the protocol that you are [00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:37.540] interested in keeping on the protocol or moving to the protocol? What are things you kind of expect [00:23:37.540 --> 00:23:41.420] the clients to tap into things like you're talking about. [00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:45.080] Yeah, so, like, this is obviously, again, [00:23:45.320 --> 00:23:47.940] despite the joke you made at the beginning, JD, [00:23:48.140 --> 00:23:51.880] like, I'm not BDFL, like, this is a community-driven project. [00:23:53.160 --> 00:23:55.120] And so the reality is that, like, [00:23:55.160 --> 00:23:57.900] I might have ideas that other people don't want to see in the protocol, [00:23:57.900 --> 00:24:00.460] and other people might have ideas that, you know, [00:24:00.680 --> 00:24:02.620] other people might not want to see in the protocol. [00:24:03.220 --> 00:24:06.080] And the way that, like, the way we think about it at the very least [00:24:06.080 --> 00:24:11.200] is that the point allocation, which is not directly related to the token, [00:24:11.360 --> 00:24:15.320] but at least related to the initial distribution of the retroactive rewards, [00:24:17.320 --> 00:24:23.510] the points that were allocated are used within the voting mechanism, [00:24:23.690 --> 00:24:24.570] the governance mechanism. [00:24:25.750 --> 00:24:32.330] So like the hegemony channel, which I know like it's less keen for most people, [00:24:32.490 --> 00:24:36.090] ironically, like despite the fact that we've got a lot of nerds on Farcaster, [00:24:36.110 --> 00:24:41.310] there's actually not too many that have read the Hyperion Cantos. [00:24:41.310 --> 00:24:44.610] So it's kind of funny how some of those references get lost. [00:24:44.610 --> 00:24:50.910] But the hegemony channel is literally the governance channel that we created to basically collect proposals and stuff. [00:24:50.910 --> 00:24:57.910] And that's how I'd like to see discussions for how the protocol can get amended and updated going forward. [00:24:57.910 --> 00:25:05.610] And we definitely got a lot of engagement when we were talking about the hard fork due to the addition of blocks to the protocol. [00:25:05.610 --> 00:25:08.810] and I don't mean blocks is in blockchain, but block is in block users. [00:25:10.650 --> 00:25:16.520] So, yeah, that's kind of the idea going forward is that, like, this needs to be something that, [00:25:16.600 --> 00:25:21.000] like, if there's a proposal, it needs to have, like, user buy-in before it's something that gets added. [00:25:21.380 --> 00:25:28.620] That said, I'm not 100% a fan of fat protocols, but I am a fan of protocols that have features that make [00:25:28.620 --> 00:25:35.080] client interaction directly possible, if only because, like, you know, this was this was the phenomenon we saw with [00:25:35.080 --> 00:25:39.540] Farcaster even in the Merkle days. It's what led to the puns that I made on those FIPs. Like [00:25:39.540 --> 00:25:45.480] whenever somebody said, hey, there's, you know, this is wrong or I don't think Farcaster [00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:49.920] should be like this, Dan would always, you know, jokingly say opportunity for another client. [00:25:50.420 --> 00:25:57.000] But, you know, I've built a client, man. And it turns out there's a lot of things you need [00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:04.200] that the protocol doesn't offer. And so when you stack on having to run a node yourself plus [00:26:04.200 --> 00:26:08.220] additional infrastructure costs, you have to layer on top of that because the protocol doesn't [00:26:08.220 --> 00:26:13.540] support it. It becomes really expensive for anyone to actually like, you know, pony up a client [00:26:13.540 --> 00:26:23.170] to meaningfully compete. And so, yeah, that's why Hypersnap came to be. And so I don't believe [00:26:23.170 --> 00:26:28.990] in fat protocols, but I do think that protocols should at least be, you know, minimum viable [00:26:28.990 --> 00:26:31.030] protocol for, like in a [00:26:31.030 --> 00:26:32.910] decentralization context at least, minimum [00:26:32.910 --> 00:26:35.050] viable protocol for servicing a client. [00:26:35.210 --> 00:26:37.030] Like if you can't run a client directly off the [00:26:37.030 --> 00:26:38.530] protocol, then the protocol's not complete. [00:26:39.460 --> 00:26:40.860] Yeah, I definitely [00:26:40.860 --> 00:26:42.860] agree with that. I felt for [00:26:42.860 --> 00:26:44.920] some time and wrote up some [00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:46.900] thoughts and sent them to [00:26:46.900 --> 00:26:48.400] send them to an ANAR [00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:51.100] a week, two, three weeks ago, something like [00:26:51.100 --> 00:26:52.700] that, maybe too little too late. [00:26:53.460 --> 00:26:53.600] That [00:26:53.600 --> 00:26:56.900] this model that, and [00:26:56.900 --> 00:26:58.680] not to make the conversation about [00:26:58.680 --> 00:27:00.400] about anybody's past decisions [00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:02.060] and leadership, but this model that the [00:27:02.060 --> 00:27:04.140] Merkle team that Dan [00:27:04.140 --> 00:27:06.080] and Chase [00:27:06.080 --> 00:27:08.300] of, it was very, like, [00:27:08.580 --> 00:27:10.900] it was very centered on the idea that you could [00:27:10.900 --> 00:27:12.660] build an app that would [00:27:12.660 --> 00:27:14.900] rise to the level of the [00:27:14.900 --> 00:27:16.920] apex predators and sort of [00:27:16.920 --> 00:27:18.700] live on the home screen of a billion [00:27:18.700 --> 00:27:20.900] telephones. And quite frankly, [00:27:21.260 --> 00:27:22.860] like, that just [00:27:22.860 --> 00:27:24.960] seems like a foolish goal if you're trying [00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:26.940] to build the protocol that [00:27:26.940 --> 00:27:33.120] enables discourse in a block space version of the future, right, where you can move value back [00:27:33.120 --> 00:27:40.640] and for us. I'd rather see a world where it's easy for anybody to spin up a protocol that has, [00:27:40.800 --> 00:27:46.140] or excuse me, a client that has any shape and functionality that the protocol will support, [00:27:46.300 --> 00:27:51.600] right? Like, you can go build email clients, you can go build RSS clients. The thing that [00:27:51.600 --> 00:27:58.060] that retains long-term, durable value amongst a plurality of human beings, [00:27:58.280 --> 00:28:01.780] it's not the one great RSS client, right? [00:28:01.880 --> 00:28:05.060] Like, it's not the one great email client. [00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:08.680] It's the fact that the protocol allows you to conduct yourself [00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:13.840] and sort of nail those jobs to be done using anything. [00:28:14.380 --> 00:28:19.980] And that always seemed to me to be the place where we ought to be driving for, [00:28:19.980 --> 00:28:21.240] we will. [00:28:23.340 --> 00:28:25.180] Just to make sure it doesn't get lost, [00:28:25.280 --> 00:28:27.660] I am really interested in Cassie, [00:28:27.740 --> 00:28:29.920] what the first 30 days look like [00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:32.980] because I think we all are in agreement [00:28:32.980 --> 00:28:34.340] that costs have to be cut [00:28:34.340 --> 00:28:35.900] for any kind of sustainability to happen, [00:28:36.140 --> 00:28:39.380] and it's a matter of what costs do we cut [00:28:39.380 --> 00:28:41.300] before the client becomes [00:28:41.300 --> 00:28:44.100] a super niche technical tool [00:28:44.100 --> 00:28:46.640] that the diehards are using, but there's no growth. [00:28:46.700 --> 00:28:48.860] And it's a question of do we want growth as well, right? [00:28:48.900 --> 00:28:49.960] And where do we fit on the stuff? [00:28:49.980 --> 00:28:57.280] spectrum. But jumping back, yeah, what do the first 30 days look like, Cassie? Yeah, so ultimately that [00:28:57.280 --> 00:29:03.260] comes down to the proposal. So I'll go ahead and enumerate over what I currently have in mind for [00:29:03.260 --> 00:29:10.500] this, is that the proposal I'm going to be giving to the Neynar team is essentially like, look, we [00:29:10.500 --> 00:29:19.700] obviously don't have the ability to sustain a 100K a month bill. That's just not tenable. So instead, [00:29:19.980 --> 00:29:26.620] idea would be to set up a vehicle that Neynar, like a transition vehicle, that enables Neynar to [00:29:26.620 --> 00:29:34.560] keep the lights on for the next few months while we're able to, like, raise capital and [00:29:34.560 --> 00:29:39.840] reduce costs to the point where we get Farcaster's costs down as low as possible, because [00:29:39.840 --> 00:29:46.640] frankly, it's very possible. Like, clearly, I've done it. And so, like, that's, you know, [00:29:46.700 --> 00:29:49.960] priority one, get costs down so that Farcaster can self-sust. [00:29:49.980 --> 00:29:58.220] stain. Priority to get the, like, get the ambiguity around Snapchain and Hypersnap short up, [00:29:58.340 --> 00:30:07.080] basically, you know, move Snapchain into Hypersnap. It just becomes one, one protocol so that [00:30:07.080 --> 00:30:12.100] it's not, not this, like, tug of war anymore, and we don't have to worry about, like, [00:30:12.360 --> 00:30:18.320] dealing with forks and things. Like, the fork was the incredibly neutral answer to, you know, [00:30:18.320 --> 00:30:25.140] Neynar's, like, relatively like, you know, central vision that they were pursuing. [00:30:25.760 --> 00:30:31.760] And so the third thing that basically would be part of that, like, as part of the transition [00:30:31.760 --> 00:30:39.700] vehicle, would be getting people involved in the new org to develop, like to continue [00:30:39.700 --> 00:30:41.000] developing and supporting the client. [00:30:41.440 --> 00:30:45.940] I think, and this would be, like, probably one of the more controversial things for those [00:30:45.940 --> 00:30:47.620] who come from Q-LAN specifically, [00:30:48.220 --> 00:30:52.920] it would be to actually merge the Farcaster and Quorum clients together. [00:30:53.220 --> 00:30:54.900] Like Quorum is, quorum's great. [00:30:55.160 --> 00:30:56.140] I love quorum, obviously. [00:30:56.260 --> 00:30:57.480] I put a lot of time into it. [00:30:57.680 --> 00:31:01.300] And I, you know, by all means, like, none of the features of quorum should die. [00:31:01.300 --> 00:31:06.060] But rather that Farcaster can adopt the features Quorum has, [00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:12.870] we can, you know, continue to pursue the overall privacy angle [00:31:12.870 --> 00:31:16.010] by removing the things that we're not privacy for, [00:31:16.070 --> 00:31:45.980] like all the analytics, the RPC providers that are collecting too much data and also cost too much anyway, that type of thing. I also did notice a few people were talking about Clanker. I want to be abundantly clear about the proposal I'm going to make. The proposal I'm going to make does not involve Clanker. I have no interest in maintaining that. It's not that I dislike Clanker as a concept. It's just that Clanker, frankly, shouldn't be, you know, shouldn't be run. [00:31:46.100 --> 00:31:48.100] by the team that's running a social media protocol. [00:31:48.100 --> 00:31:50.020] They're very, very different. [00:31:50.020 --> 00:31:52.940] I know that proxy made a joke on Twitter [00:31:52.940 --> 00:31:54.300] about taking the reins, [00:31:54.300 --> 00:31:57.260] but legitimately, if there is somebody [00:31:57.260 --> 00:31:59.260] who wants to take the reins, [00:31:59.260 --> 00:32:03.060] Clanker arguably should go to whomever [00:32:03.060 --> 00:32:06.200] could take the reins on that and sustainably keep it going. [00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:10.660] That's just not what we're considering. [00:32:10.660 --> 00:32:13.760] On a light side, I know that the potential [00:32:13.760 --> 00:32:16.560] of what your berserker is building with [00:32:16.580 --> 00:32:21.140] empire builder to be aligned. So I know, I know it's not something that you're interested in, [00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:29.120] but just pointing that out. Yeah, and that's totally fair. I mean, the way that I'm thinking about [00:32:29.120 --> 00:32:34.460] it is actually a lot simpler than, you know, like what some people, like some people like to [00:32:34.460 --> 00:32:40.820] refer to the Farcaster community as elitist or ivory towerish. And I, you know, I'm not like, [00:32:41.200 --> 00:32:45.920] you tokens bad. I'm actually like, yeah, tokens can actually be good. I'm not necessarily a fan of [00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:49.020] meme coins, but like tokens can be good. And meme coins, [00:32:49.040 --> 00:32:50.940] can be its own cultural phenomenon. [00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:55.420] It's just that when you hybridize, [00:32:55.540 --> 00:32:57.940] like if you look at like a full hybrid, [00:32:58.480 --> 00:33:02.200] something like Pump.fun or any of the other entrants [00:33:02.200 --> 00:33:04.680] that have come on recently as like social trading, [00:33:04.840 --> 00:33:06.580] like really like going for social trading, [00:33:07.180 --> 00:33:10.520] the like community, the ethos, the environment, [00:33:10.520 --> 00:33:13.100] it's all very different. [00:33:13.100 --> 00:33:18.890] It's just very, I'll just put it that way. [00:33:18.890 --> 00:33:22.430] It's very different. I'm not going to, I'm not going to, you know, fire any shots right now. [00:33:23.190 --> 00:33:29.450] But, and that wasn't something that ever made Farcaster special. If anything, it kind of made Farcaster worse. [00:33:30.170 --> 00:33:33.390] And it's not their fault, to be clear. It's not the fault of the Clanker team for doing that. [00:33:33.470 --> 00:33:36.910] Like, it just was an emergent property at the time. And it was actually a good call for them. [00:33:37.210 --> 00:33:40.830] It just, like, it wasn't a good call to merge it in the Farcaster. And I still believe that. [00:33:42.290 --> 00:33:45.590] Hang on a second. I did see a comment and I don't know where it went. [00:33:45.670 --> 00:33:48.870] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So thumbs up. I don't know if this is what you meant by. [00:33:48.890 --> 00:33:54.150] this, but the business model being meme coins is a risk, from a company standpoint and longevity [00:33:54.150 --> 00:34:00.010] standpoint, absolutely. But also from a regulatory standpoint, sure, meme coins are effectively [00:34:00.010 --> 00:34:04.770] novelties and therefore it doesn't, you know, trigger any risk of the SEC unless, like, [00:34:04.970 --> 00:34:11.510] you know, we end up with another like Gary Gensler, but Gary Gensler on meth. The real issue [00:34:11.510 --> 00:34:18.900] is that even under a meme coins are legally valid structure, they are a huge, [00:34:18.920 --> 00:34:28.140] compliance risk. Oh my God. Like it like the I can't imagine what the lawyer fees were to actually [00:34:28.140 --> 00:34:34.720] properly run a clanker. It's it's very hard to do that and so like hats off to them but yeah that's [00:34:34.720 --> 00:34:41.620] just it does not it doesn't belong on the same team. I'm glad to hear that. I've always felt like [00:34:41.620 --> 00:34:46.840] it was out of scope as well for the extent that people can find use for it. It all get built by [00:34:46.840 --> 00:34:48.440] some other group of people [00:34:48.440 --> 00:34:50.140] who are passionate about those use cases. [00:34:52.420 --> 00:34:53.840] Yeah, social PVP is not fun. [00:34:53.920 --> 00:34:54.760] Totally agree to Woofey. [00:34:56.420 --> 00:34:58.820] D. Fern, why not merge with ATProto? [00:34:59.300 --> 00:35:00.340] So there's a couple of reasons. [00:35:00.560 --> 00:35:03.880] One, Farcaster really does have something special. [00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:06.410] Like, Farcaster, [00:35:06.870 --> 00:35:09.390] like, culturally, it's very different. [00:35:10.090 --> 00:35:11.330] Culturally, it's very curious. [00:35:11.830 --> 00:35:13.230] I think the reason that, like, [00:35:13.350 --> 00:35:15.450] is one of the things that really drew me to it [00:35:15.450 --> 00:35:17.750] because I wasn't very big on social media [00:35:17.750 --> 00:35:21.150] other than like using Discord before Farcaster [00:35:21.150 --> 00:35:27.950] was because like it felt like the early days of Reddit minus the cringe. [00:35:28.150 --> 00:35:31.630] It felt like the early days of Hacker News, once again minus the cringe, [00:35:31.750 --> 00:35:33.410] but the Michael O. Church kind of cringe. [00:35:34.870 --> 00:35:36.770] Shout out to anybody who remembers him. [00:35:37.310 --> 00:35:41.830] But it's just, it was something special and it still is. [00:35:42.550 --> 00:35:47.470] And Bluesky in comparison, like I've used Bluesky, Bluesky, [00:35:47.750 --> 00:35:50.750] It's tough. [00:35:51.050 --> 00:35:52.490] Like, it's just tough. [00:35:52.590 --> 00:35:56.550] Like, if you have an opinion that's outside of the hive mind, boy, howdy, are you fucked? [00:35:57.030 --> 00:36:03.890] I lived there for about two years before coming a barcaster and couldn't agree more. [00:36:03.890 --> 00:36:09.110] And your larger point about, like, what are you really getting when you get the merger? [00:36:09.550 --> 00:36:13.650] Like, if one were to be a private, like, you're collapsing culture. [00:36:13.890 --> 00:36:15.490] And that's not the thing you want. [00:36:15.490 --> 00:36:31.290] And so if you can find any other way, or I should say, if the thing that you think is worth sacrificing is the culture in order to solve the affordability question as opposed to gutting functionality, I just, I'd have to disagree. [00:36:33.210 --> 00:36:44.590] Yeah. And one thing I want to like, okay, wow, holy crap, there's a lot of comments. That's so cool. Okay, so a couple things I want to point out real quick. [00:36:44.590 --> 00:36:50.610] in terms of like also longitudinal vision of what like I see the future of [00:36:50.610 --> 00:36:55.310] Farcaster being, there's two things that never landed on protocol that I really felt like [00:36:55.310 --> 00:37:01.510] it should have. One was direct casts. Obviously like I authored the direct cast FIP as we [00:37:01.510 --> 00:37:05.510] were building the direct cast feature out in the first place. And we ended up actually [00:37:05.510 --> 00:37:11.590] implementing the direct casts FIP on quorum itself. Obviously it's it's a bit more [00:37:11.590 --> 00:37:18.010] enhanced since the original FIP, but like the concept, like, you know, I wrote the concept for it [00:37:18.010 --> 00:37:22.370] before I actually ever joined the Farcaster team. It's what Quorum was all about. That should have [00:37:22.370 --> 00:37:28.410] been on protocol. And the proposal I have and have already, you know, executed on and proven that [00:37:28.410 --> 00:37:33.910] the model does work, and it needs some polish, but it does work, is something that I think is [00:37:33.910 --> 00:37:41.450] woefully overlooked. It is, frankly, I think that is the most powerful distinction between, you know, [00:37:41.590 --> 00:37:43.430] everyone come back to Twitter [00:37:43.430 --> 00:37:45.090] versus [00:37:45.090 --> 00:37:47.430] threads versus Bluesky [00:37:47.430 --> 00:37:49.450] they're all kind of very similar in shape [00:37:49.450 --> 00:37:51.730] the one thing that distinguishes Farcaster [00:37:51.730 --> 00:37:53.690] is I think that if you look [00:37:53.690 --> 00:37:55.670] at the ratio and of course this isn't public data [00:37:55.670 --> 00:37:57.390] so it's not something we could actually prove [00:37:57.390 --> 00:37:59.630] without that data but I genuinely [00:37:59.630 --> 00:38:01.470] believe that if you look at the data [00:38:01.470 --> 00:38:03.490] you would find that there are [00:38:03.490 --> 00:38:05.410] more active users on direct [00:38:05.410 --> 00:38:07.350] casts than there are active [00:38:07.350 --> 00:38:08.210] users casting [00:38:08.210 --> 00:38:10.590] and that alone [00:38:10.590 --> 00:38:11.570] speaks volumes about [00:38:11.590 --> 00:38:16.590] one, why it belongs on the protocol, and two, what the overall shape of the protocol and the [00:38:16.590 --> 00:38:21.890] clients around it might look like in the future. I genuinely think that the future that will [00:38:21.890 --> 00:38:27.330] make something unique enough about Farcaster as a value prop compared to any of the other social [00:38:27.330 --> 00:38:39.410] networks out there is the focus on hybridizing the discord model of social media with the Reddit model [00:38:39.410 --> 00:38:42.230] of social media with the Twitter model of social media. [00:38:44.370 --> 00:38:49.690] Yeah, that's very much what we put together pre, you know, again a couple of weeks ago, [00:38:49.690 --> 00:38:57.770] I said is the identity is the thing that allows you to get to a future of, oh, there's a [00:38:57.770 --> 00:39:02.170] client that looks and smells like WhatsApp, except it runs on top of the farcaster protocol. [00:39:02.390 --> 00:39:06.710] There's a client that looks like Discord or Slack or buzz or whatever, except it runs on top [00:39:06.710 --> 00:39:07.610] for the Farcaster Protocol. [00:39:08.110 --> 00:39:12.070] And there's a client that looks and smells like Twitter, da-da-da-da, for that, right? [00:39:12.190 --> 00:39:14.810] Like, to me, that's your promise land. [00:39:14.930 --> 00:39:17.450] It's not trying to build all that stuff yourself. [00:39:17.450 --> 00:39:23.730] It's having a persistent enough core that people are incentivized to go build those things themselves. [00:39:24.410 --> 00:39:28.590] Yeah, and I think there's actually really strong merit for their existence, too. [00:39:28.770 --> 00:39:33.470] Like, the reason why, you know, alternative clients didn't really work out for Farcaster right now [00:39:33.470 --> 00:39:35.450] was specifically because Farcaster was small. [00:39:35.450 --> 00:40:04.970] But like imagine a future where Farcaster isn't small, you can compare it to other social media apps that do have multiple, or at least had, I should say, multiple clients. You had Twitter and TweetDeck. You had Reddit and Apollo. There are so many cases where users really want more control over their experience. And that user experience being controllable has some really unique things that actually can relate to the protocol itself. So, [00:40:05.450 --> 00:40:26.390] I'll dive into that a little bit real quick as well, because one of the items that I, you know, posted about the other day before the news came out about Neynar is the support for the snap compute FIP on Hypersnap, which is essentially giving a virtual machine that runs on the protocol that enables people to create interactive experiences. [00:40:26.390 --> 00:40:31.570] And I genuinely think that, you know, even Rish had that same idea, like the idea of, like, [00:40:32.560 --> 00:40:38.280] offering, like, very small, like, interactive apps, like, software as content. [00:40:38.900 --> 00:40:40.120] I think that's a valid premise. [00:40:40.560 --> 00:40:46.560] I think that the execution of it needs to be, I hate to say this because people might actually [00:40:46.560 --> 00:40:48.880] take it the wrong way, but it needs to be TikTok-ified. [00:40:48.880 --> 00:40:56.300] Like, it needs to be, you know, a semi-uniform format, which the SNAP compute VM can provide. [00:40:56.620 --> 00:41:02.420] a semi-uniform substrate in which user controls can be presented. [00:41:03.060 --> 00:41:04.900] So, like, you know, if you want to make an asteroids game, [00:41:05.020 --> 00:41:09.180] you can make an asteroids game by using the joystick component, by, you know, so on. [00:41:10.700 --> 00:41:14.300] And I think where crypto really plays a unique role there is that, like, [00:41:14.340 --> 00:41:18.450] if you look at any other, like, you know, socially consumable software, [00:41:18.530 --> 00:41:20.850] which the biggest market is video games by and large, [00:41:21.130 --> 00:41:26.690] a lot of those games out there you find, like, tend to use, like, assets for, [00:41:26.710 --> 00:41:31.910] the Unity Assets store. It's like very common components. But if you think about it to the [00:41:31.910 --> 00:41:38.490] degree and you have a protocol that is credibly neutral, decentralized, and tokenized, people could even [00:41:38.490 --> 00:41:43.370] sell those assets. Your components are on the chain. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. [00:41:43.370 --> 00:41:48.110] And so like, longitudinal vision, like this is, these are things that, you know, [00:41:48.150 --> 00:41:52.610] require time to develop and grow. And despite the fact that some people are like, oh, wow, [00:41:52.670 --> 00:41:55.950] it's taken so long for Hypersnap to do things. Well, we're trying to do things the right way. [00:41:55.950 --> 00:42:01.150] and we were trying to cooperate with a team that wasn't always cooperating with us. [00:42:01.150 --> 00:42:06.090] And so, you know, you didn't go take outside financing from people that have expectations about [00:42:06.090 --> 00:42:13.650] returns. Exactly. That's the other reality here, right? Like, we need to point out the deal with [00:42:13.650 --> 00:42:20.920] the devil that venture investing can sometimes be. Glenn, actually, he raised an incredibly good point. [00:42:21.920 --> 00:42:26.480] So the, like I was talking about with the image and video side of things, these are [00:42:26.500 --> 00:42:29.180] are expensive features on Cloudflare. [00:42:29.480 --> 00:42:31.320] We can reduce the costs on Quilibrium, [00:42:31.660 --> 00:42:34.260] but we still have to like put together [00:42:34.260 --> 00:42:36.720] because this is roadmap for Q stuff, [00:42:36.720 --> 00:42:39.840] but we already had on our roadmap [00:42:39.840 --> 00:42:43.420] building out the video and image-serving infrastructure [00:42:43.420 --> 00:42:45.420] that can handle things like, you know, [00:42:45.500 --> 00:42:48.500] dynamic bit rate for videos [00:42:48.500 --> 00:42:50.640] or dynamic resolution for images, [00:42:50.840 --> 00:42:53.180] like you request the resolution you need to get the image at, [00:42:53.240 --> 00:42:55.920] and so it transcodes on the fly, that kind of stuff. [00:42:56.500 --> 00:43:05.240] If Rumble is genuinely interested, like, that actually is a, you know, very, like, well-suited match and it could work together really well. [00:43:05.840 --> 00:43:11.420] Like, so, yeah, like, this also kind of comes back to the other thing I saw yesterday. [00:43:11.580 --> 00:43:21.480] A lot of people were basically writing eulogies for Farcaster, and I, ironically, like, wrote a eulogy not that long ago, parodying, you know, the tragedy of Julius Caesar. [00:43:22.040 --> 00:43:26.480] But that was more of meant to be an indictment of the current state, right? [00:43:26.500 --> 00:43:29.060] rather than a Farcaster's Dead in my case, [00:43:29.180 --> 00:43:32.340] whereas I think some people genuinely think Farcaster's dead. [00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:36.780] I haven't seen that many people post links to their Twitter account in quite some time. [00:43:38.860 --> 00:43:43.590] So just to be clear, like, again, I already said this earlier, [00:43:43.590 --> 00:43:49.490] but no matter what happens with whoever requires or carries the torch from Neynar, [00:43:50.030 --> 00:43:51.510] hyper snap will exist. [00:43:52.230 --> 00:43:56.670] And Quorum either by merging the app into Farcaster, [00:43:56.690 --> 00:44:01.390] and then it collectively becomes this massive super app will still exist in either way. [00:44:02.710 --> 00:44:05.730] And so we're going to continue out on this mission regardless, [00:44:06.070 --> 00:44:11.310] but I think that this is legitimately the lightning rod moment [00:44:11.310 --> 00:44:16.030] where a lot of different parties that have been kind of working in silos can come together. [00:44:16.030 --> 00:44:24.180] And very similarly, Eggman, I saw your mention of the image generation that you guys do. [00:44:24.180 --> 00:44:29.500] I mean, that could actually be another incredible, like, value at. [00:44:29.580 --> 00:44:37.060] I think that, like, we just need to get into a group chat and hash it out before we, like, you know, send the proposal off. [00:44:37.500 --> 00:44:42.700] But I do mean, we do need to move pretty quickly because, like, I imagine that there's already other offers. [00:44:43.500 --> 00:44:52.420] One thing I have found kind of odd, though, is that, like, I haven't heard any, like, any public mention of who's making those offers outside of myself. [00:44:52.420 --> 00:44:56.800] Like, I saw what might have been a joke from Suji, but I haven't seen anybody else. [00:44:57.040 --> 00:45:01.740] So I'm wondering who's making these offers and what in the world that actually constitutes, [00:45:01.940 --> 00:45:07.480] because I think similarly, if an outsider came in and bought out Farcaster, that was random arrow. [00:45:08.540 --> 00:45:13.420] But no, like, if an outsider came in and bought out Farcaster, I think that would be a very sad moment altogether. [00:45:14.020 --> 00:45:19.960] Well, so can you play that scenario out from your point of view, Cassie? [00:45:19.960 --> 00:45:23.960] again, like, it's bought by adversarial interests. [00:45:24.960 --> 00:45:27.240] Go back to what you said a moment ago. [00:45:27.440 --> 00:45:29.140] Hypersnap will persist. [00:45:30.220 --> 00:45:34.130] If you've got to separate yourself [00:45:34.130 --> 00:45:40.510] from whatever the future of the Farcaster entity wants to do, [00:45:41.610 --> 00:45:44.210] what do you lose, right? [00:45:44.410 --> 00:45:48.350] Like, namespace is the first thing that comes to mind, right? [00:45:48.350 --> 00:45:52.230] Like, you're not spinning up your own namespace proposal. [00:45:52.870 --> 00:45:58.810] Like, a net new user doesn't create a different identity in order to use quorum and they do Farcaster, right? [00:45:58.890 --> 00:46:05.750] So how do you solve for those things in the event that the future of Farcaster is one that you do want to remove yourself from? [00:46:06.390 --> 00:46:07.490] Yeah, so we already put you. [00:46:08.090 --> 00:46:08.810] Oh, sorry, go ahead. [00:46:09.050 --> 00:46:09.510] Okay. [00:46:10.010 --> 00:46:13.070] I think it was already explored during the fork, right? [00:46:13.430 --> 00:46:18.170] Like, most of those questions were answered during the whole fork episode, [00:46:18.170 --> 00:46:24.450] which turns out to be very valuable because we're going to have to fork something some way [00:46:24.450 --> 00:46:31.030] because whatever happens to, like we're probably going to lose our front door, [00:46:31.030 --> 00:46:34.110] which is the Farcaster app in a meaningful capacity, right? [00:46:34.230 --> 00:46:36.430] Which also has not to be a likely future. [00:46:37.430 --> 00:46:43.510] Yeah, so I think that one of the things that I think all of us have to do collectively, [00:46:44.010 --> 00:46:47.230] and Cassie, this might be impossible for you as a lens to view through, [00:46:47.230 --> 00:46:53.130] so you might need to get this externally, but is to remember why you guys participated in the [00:46:53.130 --> 00:46:57.310] network in the first place. Why were you actually showing up every day and posting every day [00:46:57.310 --> 00:47:01.870] and engaging every day? Because I feel like a lot of the technical in the weeds discussions [00:47:01.870 --> 00:47:08.210] that we're doing don't really matter all too much if we're not providing what people really [00:47:08.210 --> 00:47:13.450] want. Having onboarded a number of normies myself, the thing that they want is to show up and see [00:47:13.450 --> 00:47:17.050] and talk to their friends and be introduced to new friends. That's what [00:47:17.050 --> 00:47:23.690] made Farcaster's so great. That's the simple thing that a lot of people missed about why we [00:47:23.690 --> 00:47:28.410] showed up. I've made more friends to farcasters than pretty much any other platform and [00:47:28.410 --> 00:47:33.450] definitely more than I've made for personal connections because the network was so big and so easy [00:47:33.450 --> 00:47:38.970] to reach that it made a huge impact on my life personally. And I want to be able to replicate [00:47:38.970 --> 00:47:45.850] that for other people. But I worry that we don't have the bar of quality of table stakes to [00:47:45.850 --> 00:47:52.330] bring those people and that experience back because we're going to lose say what you will [00:47:52.330 --> 00:47:58.650] about dan he did a really good job of focusing or making sure the team focused enough on the user [00:47:58.650 --> 00:48:05.930] experience to make it parity enough to get some amount of growth in some ways it was not what [00:48:05.930 --> 00:48:11.050] the network needed completely but there were aspects of that that we should steal and focus on [00:48:11.050 --> 00:48:16.010] And I'm worried, again, that we're getting overly technical too specific about specific [00:48:16.010 --> 00:48:21.130] implementation details that aren't necessarily going to matter or bring back the magic that we want. [00:48:21.530 --> 00:48:22.170] Maybe I'm way up. [00:48:22.170 --> 00:48:23.050] I totally agree with you. [00:48:23.530 --> 00:48:24.570] I'd agree, Role. [00:48:24.570 --> 00:48:25.210] I think it's smart. [00:48:25.210 --> 00:48:30.570] The only reason why I was going technical was specifically to answer, like, next 30 days, [00:48:30.570 --> 00:48:32.330] what actions would be the case? [00:48:32.330 --> 00:48:36.970] Like, how do we get to a path where we can be sustainable and then, like, pursue growth [00:48:36.970 --> 00:48:37.610] aggressively? [00:48:37.610 --> 00:48:39.850] Because my point of view hasn't changed. [00:48:39.850 --> 00:48:46.530] Like the goal of hypersnap is to get a million users onto Farcaster in the first year. [00:48:46.870 --> 00:48:54.530] And obviously, like, we've had some difficulties with the time frame given all the back and forth around fork or no fork. [00:48:54.530 --> 00:49:07.850] But nevertheless, like, I'm still committed to that because that is, you know, paramount for the survival of the protocol, for the interest in the protocol and on top of it all, like, for the success of the protocol. [00:49:07.850 --> 00:49:15.170] and you're you're absolutely right and like normies are not going to use farcaster and enjoy it like [00:49:15.170 --> 00:49:19.610] I'm not saying my my husband's a normie because he's not but like like he's heard enough of my [00:49:19.610 --> 00:49:24.780] crypto shit that he could probably like sound like any any one of the best of us shit posters [00:49:24.780 --> 00:49:31.580] but he does not like Farcaster like he does not like the app he has complaints about it every [00:49:31.580 --> 00:49:37.760] single day and I think that those are totally fair complaints and I've actually been taking a lot [00:49:37.760 --> 00:49:42.760] of the criticism into account and been feeding that into, you know, U.S. feedback on quorum, [00:49:43.540 --> 00:49:47.240] and not to mention all the number of users who have been testing quorum that I'm eternally [00:49:47.240 --> 00:49:53.840] grateful to that have been giving me feedback as well. But the fact is that, yes, we absolutely [00:49:53.840 --> 00:49:57.340] have to be normie friendly. It doesn't mean we have to eternal September ourselves. It doesn't [00:49:57.340 --> 00:50:02.720] mean we have to lose what the app or culture is. It means that we have to make that culture [00:50:02.720 --> 00:50:12.280] like sticky and something that people want to to you know uh like aspire to like they see this and they're [00:50:12.280 --> 00:50:18.500] like wow this place is cool i want to join and uh the last uh state of the union call not the not the [00:50:18.500 --> 00:50:26.020] farcaster dev calls that that happen uh once a month but like the one that peachy ran um there was [00:50:26.020 --> 00:50:32.120] one thing that was mentioned um as part of our plans which was the uh indexability like [00:50:32.120 --> 00:50:33.880] part of the thing that [00:50:33.880 --> 00:50:36.020] I think this is a clever hack that [00:50:36.020 --> 00:50:37.500] the Bluesky team did and [00:50:37.500 --> 00:50:40.020] I find it really funny that a lot of [00:50:40.020 --> 00:50:41.980] developers were like this is wrong [00:50:41.980 --> 00:50:44.000] this is an abuse or whatever I think that [00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:45.760] that's just like petulant whining [00:50:45.760 --> 00:50:48.380] they used the privacy [00:50:48.380 --> 00:50:50.320] sensitive screenshot feature [00:50:50.320 --> 00:50:51.860] because applications like banks [00:50:51.860 --> 00:50:53.780] you know like if you want to if you take [00:50:53.780 --> 00:50:56.000] a screenshot or something's recording your screen you don't want [00:50:56.000 --> 00:50:58.040] like sensitive details like your social security [00:50:58.040 --> 00:50:59.760] number to pop up in the screenshot [00:50:59.760 --> 00:51:01.680] and so they blank that out [00:51:01.680 --> 00:51:05.900] or signal just blinks, I guess it can blank everything out. [00:51:05.980 --> 00:51:06.380] It's a setting. [00:51:07.060 --> 00:51:07.620] What does it do? [00:51:08.060 --> 00:51:10.200] What does it give me as a normal human being? [00:51:11.240 --> 00:51:13.140] Well, I mean, it gives you privacy in that case. [00:51:13.240 --> 00:51:15.700] But the reason I mentioned that is that Bluesky used that feature [00:51:15.700 --> 00:51:18.180] so that when you took a screenshot of a post on Bluesky, [00:51:18.520 --> 00:51:21.900] it would actually embed the Bluesky logo into the post image. [00:51:21.900 --> 00:51:27.200] So that way when people shared screenshots, it was basically a funnel to get people interested. [00:51:27.680 --> 00:51:28.580] So that's what I'm talking about. [00:51:29.220 --> 00:51:31.660] We need to be applying those kinds. [00:51:31.680 --> 00:51:36.240] of like go-to-market hacks to get more people interested and even aware because that's the [00:51:36.240 --> 00:51:42.800] other thing i remember uh one time literally one time uh back when it was warpcast uh that warpcast [00:51:42.800 --> 00:51:49.600] appeared on uh hacker news and i was like wow that's cool that's a really huge like that's a [00:51:49.600 --> 00:51:54.800] huge moment for us uh like getting more attention from a wider technical audience um [00:51:55.950 --> 00:52:02.010] and so it's something that i think we should be uh like really emphasizing on like how do we get content [00:52:02.030 --> 00:52:06.650] shared how do we get people interested what how do we reduce the friction of signing up for the love [00:52:06.650 --> 00:52:13.390] of god stop like stop making the crypto wallet like the the onboarding part part of the process like [00:52:13.390 --> 00:52:18.150] can i can i just illustrate this point like very finally i was going to bring this up but since you [00:52:18.150 --> 00:52:23.550] like perfectly segued into it cassie if you go to any party or you go to a conference and you're [00:52:23.550 --> 00:52:28.810] like yo i'm on farcaster are you on farcaster and they're like yes okay follow me do you know [00:52:28.810 --> 00:52:30.830] how hard it is to just get the follow [00:52:30.830 --> 00:52:32.650] feature to work for people that aren't familiar? [00:52:33.130 --> 00:52:34.810] Like, it seems easy for us because we navigate it every [00:52:34.810 --> 00:52:36.950] day. But, like, that alone [00:52:36.950 --> 00:52:38.790] should be, like, the most minimal [00:52:38.790 --> 00:52:40.830] friction event in the whole thing. That is [00:52:40.830 --> 00:52:42.670] the entire growth strategy of [00:52:42.670 --> 00:52:44.010] Farcaster originally. It was word of mouth. [00:52:44.670 --> 00:52:46.590] Kyle on top of that, if they're not on the network, [00:52:46.730 --> 00:52:48.870] if they're not on the network, it's impossible to get them to sign up [00:52:48.870 --> 00:52:50.930] in the moment. It's ridiculous. I agree. [00:52:51.390 --> 00:52:52.670] Yeah. Yeah, and so actually, [00:52:52.890 --> 00:52:54.850] so two points to that. The first [00:52:54.850 --> 00:52:56.890] is, that's why [00:52:56.890 --> 00:53:04.230] And actually, we even talked about it earlier, like, how do we handle the fact that if somebody else took over, like, how do we handle the FIDs, the fnames, all that? [00:53:05.130 --> 00:53:14.830] So Hypersnap already has, in the proof of work branch, the change is necessary to support alternative ID registries, including one on protocol. [00:53:14.830 --> 00:53:23.690] So that means that, like, sign-ups for users can be free and they are no longer bound to some contract on optimism, but still compatible with the optimism contract. [00:53:23.810 --> 00:53:25.730] So that way, you know, we don't lose users. [00:53:25.730 --> 00:53:28.130] we just have another route for users to sign up. [00:53:28.370 --> 00:53:29.130] Second thing, [00:53:29.630 --> 00:53:32.670] and this I think is the more important for go-to-market is, [00:53:32.770 --> 00:53:35.910] yes, it should be absolutely easier to sign users up [00:53:35.910 --> 00:53:38.790] and to, like, handle follows. [00:53:38.950 --> 00:53:40.930] So, like, sharing of links should be easier. [00:53:41.130 --> 00:53:42.350] Following a user should be easier. [00:53:42.710 --> 00:53:45.470] I remember Snapchain, or not Snapchain, shit, [00:53:45.990 --> 00:53:48.830] Snapchat added QR codes [00:53:48.830 --> 00:53:50.770] so that you could scan the user's QR code [00:53:50.770 --> 00:53:53.170] and immediately, like, follow them. [00:53:53.650 --> 00:53:55.170] Same thing, you know, onboarding. [00:53:55.170 --> 00:53:59.570] If you don't have Snapchat, you take a picture of the QR code, it leads you to the onboarding route. [00:53:59.650 --> 00:54:00.570] We should be doing that. [00:54:01.770 --> 00:54:08.850] And even going as far as the NFC-style tap, like, if you can do the, like, phone tap, then we should be doing that. [00:54:09.030 --> 00:54:10.970] These are not hard things to do. [00:54:11.350 --> 00:54:12.510] We should be doing them. [00:54:12.730 --> 00:54:14.050] They are not hard things to do. [00:54:14.550 --> 00:54:16.490] And so, like, that's... [00:54:16.490 --> 00:54:20.950] And I drop one point and then I got to bounce and have dinner. [00:54:20.950 --> 00:54:32.370] You said a few minutes ago, Cassie, one of the high-value things for you was getting DMs and GMs, I assume, onto the protocol. [00:54:32.990 --> 00:54:45.650] And Royal, you said that, like, at the core, the thing that, at least in your case, if I'm summarizing correctly, kept you coming back was the people were interesting to talk to. [00:54:45.650 --> 00:55:15.750] to me this this highlights the value of there needs to be a dedicated client that just looks and smells like a messaging client not a social feed client because I feel like that's a rational door that you can get people through right I'm 10x more 100x more likely to get an affirmative response if I ask somebody for their WhatsApp then if I ask them for their [00:55:15.970 --> 00:55:22.430] Twitter or their LinkedIn account, right? Like the job to be done of, hey, I met you and I want to be able to keep [00:55:22.430 --> 00:55:30.650] maintain contact with you, that's a messaging thing, not necessarily a social performance thing, [00:55:30.650 --> 00:55:37.350] which is what I would argue that the dominant use cases for Insta and Twitter and all the other ones, right? [00:55:37.350 --> 00:55:40.490] It's different things of different people, but social's also going through a bit of a black pill moment. [00:55:40.490 --> 00:55:45.950] I posted about this before, but that like people are, I don't know if waking up or being [00:55:45.970 --> 00:55:49.570] forced to reckon with the fact that like all of the social networks are mining them for [00:55:49.570 --> 00:55:55.550] their attention to monetize them and so they're they're having a bit of rebellion um so it's [00:55:55.550 --> 00:56:00.110] and then if you post anything publicly you're getting mined by AI who's training on your stuff [00:56:00.110 --> 00:56:03.890] and whether or not that matters like you're not moving the needle of the weights of the model [00:56:03.890 --> 00:56:08.690] that much don't don't think too highly of yourselves but um yeah right right but like it doesn't matter [00:56:08.690 --> 00:56:12.910] that it feels bad and it feels violating to the people who are doing this who are putting in work [00:56:12.910 --> 00:56:15.950] and feeling like their work is going to go hang out and group chats exactly [00:56:15.970 --> 00:56:17.470] Exactly. Everyone's going on the ground. [00:56:17.470 --> 00:56:18.470] We're going on a funny group. [00:56:18.470 --> 00:56:20.470] Yep, dark internet theory, et cetera. [00:56:20.470 --> 00:56:23.970] I think the bigger point that you're trying to make, [00:56:23.970 --> 00:56:25.970] and I think that we can generalize this, [00:56:25.970 --> 00:56:28.970] is that no matter what we do, most of the time, [00:56:28.970 --> 00:56:31.970] a network like this is going to be subject to a power law distribution. [00:56:31.970 --> 00:56:33.970] There's going to be a few winners at the top, [00:56:33.970 --> 00:56:36.970] and a lot of long tail of people who participate [00:56:36.970 --> 00:56:39.970] and then a lot more people who work. [00:56:39.970 --> 00:56:41.970] That's going to apply to clients, [00:56:41.970 --> 00:56:44.970] to people on the network, to every aspect of the whole thing. [00:56:44.970 --> 00:56:50.730] And so I think we need a unified front door that presents a polished user experience [00:56:50.730 --> 00:56:55.370] that has the features that we want to champion as an important thing. [00:56:55.370 --> 00:56:57.690] That's what the Farcaster client is right now. [00:56:57.690 --> 00:56:59.930] That's what allows us to talk at this very moment. [00:56:59.930 --> 00:57:02.730] That's what allows all of us to interact most of the time. [00:57:02.730 --> 00:57:08.250] If we want Quorum to become that, or we get the code to Farcaster's' client code, [00:57:08.250 --> 00:57:13.210] and we merge it into Quorum, however we handle it, like the table stakes are a polished [00:57:13.210 --> 00:57:14.810] user experience, right? [00:57:14.810 --> 00:57:18.190] And that will require media at some point. [00:57:18.190 --> 00:57:22.070] Maybe we're in a rebuild season, and we deal with it then, or afterwards, rather. [00:57:22.670 --> 00:57:34.630] But, like, I don't know if we're, if we're fully appreciating the monumental task at hand to be able to keep the thing that we love going and taking on the burden, right? [00:57:34.690 --> 00:57:38.510] We're all implicitly volunteering for some amount of work and a job. [00:57:38.930 --> 00:57:40.370] So not that Cassie doesn't. [00:57:40.530 --> 00:57:42.990] Cassie is very obviously knee-deep in all of this. [00:57:43.390 --> 00:57:44.850] Like, Cassie can't be the only one. [00:57:44.870 --> 00:57:46.470] to shoulder that burden. [00:57:46.910 --> 00:57:53.530] And we also need to be pragmatic and come to consensus around decisions collectively. [00:57:53.950 --> 00:58:06.990] And we need to use our social immune system to box out people who are trying to co-op and take over what it clearly in not necessarily decline, but in poor health. [00:58:08.180 --> 00:58:08.600] Yeah. [00:58:08.780 --> 00:58:12.480] And I mean, one thing to that, and that's why I brought it up earlier. [00:58:12.480 --> 00:58:14.940] What does it look like to run it for 37 people? [00:58:15.160 --> 00:58:23.280] We have the hegemony channel, and it exists exactly using that power law distribution, [00:58:23.280 --> 00:58:26.980] not quite in the same way, like there's some smoothing to it, but the way the points were [00:58:26.980 --> 00:58:31.580] calculated was literally based on a harmonic distribution of users, their connections, and [00:58:31.580 --> 00:58:38.960] interactions. And that's, I feel like that metric, like not only was it very effective in [00:58:38.960 --> 00:58:44.460] catching, you know, massive spam networks, like we found literally like two million users on the [00:58:44.460 --> 00:58:52.040] protocol that were just fake, purely fake, so obviously fake. And that harmonic distribution [00:58:52.040 --> 00:59:00.680] approach actually worked really well at getting them rooted out. But I think that like we also [00:59:00.680 --> 00:59:04.740] shouldn't be hostile entirely to new users. Like, you know, people are going to always have [00:59:04.740 --> 00:59:10.420] different ideas. Also, yes, Flannel Donut, I just want to let you know, like the, I don't know [00:59:10.420 --> 00:59:15.140] if you've ever used the spaces feature before, it's kind of clunky. And it's especially clunky [00:59:15.140 --> 00:59:20.960] now that we're running, like, this is literally the largest space farcasters ever had. And so, [00:59:21.120 --> 00:59:28.120] like, bear with it. But by all means, we want to hear you too. It is. My mic is working now. I had to [00:59:28.120 --> 00:59:36.770] leave and try that. I've experienced that before, but only in very, very small. So I don't know [00:59:36.770 --> 00:59:43.110] if you want me to jump in now or I'm happy to have you finish your your thought and what not go for it [00:59:43.110 --> 00:59:50.980] town hall okay um let's see I'm just I'm hearing a lot of really great stuff here and obviously this is [00:59:50.980 --> 01:04:38.180] this is super disheartening you know when I first joined Farcaster um a while ago we are so back okay [01:04:38.180 --> 01:04:54.950] I will uh wait for uh wait for flannel donut to come back because I wanted to hear a story and I [01:04:54.950 --> 01:05:03.040] literally heard, I think, talking about, like, what drew her to Farcaster, and then everything crashed. [01:05:03.640 --> 01:05:20.270] I really hope that didn't break the recording. [01:05:35.460 --> 01:05:36.820] I think the recording is fine. [01:05:37.460 --> 01:05:38.640] Yeah, I think so, too. [01:05:38.720 --> 01:05:42.850] I think this was a Neynar side, not a... [01:05:42.850 --> 01:05:44.450] Hello, Cassie, hello. [01:05:45.090 --> 01:05:46.370] Hey, I... [01:05:46.370 --> 01:05:46.970] How are you? [01:05:47.590 --> 01:05:48.190] Doing good. [01:05:48.290 --> 01:05:52.610] By the way, I saw you raise your hand earlier, but literally it kept flickering in and out, [01:05:52.610 --> 01:05:57.670] and then you disappeared entirely from the, like, hands raised or whatever that section's called. [01:05:57.930 --> 01:05:59.550] So, yeah, no, this... [01:05:59.550 --> 01:06:01.230] Yeah, it's okay. [01:06:01.730 --> 01:06:09.620] So, yeah, Flannel, you were saying, I'm sorry you got cut off. [01:06:09.800 --> 01:06:11.540] You were talking about what brought you to Farcaster? [01:06:12.560 --> 01:06:16.260] Yeah, that's so classic for me, by the way, whether it's, like, Twitter or here. [01:06:17.460 --> 01:06:26.240] So, yeah, well, I just wanted to start out by saying the first, you know, when I joined Farcaster, like, [01:06:26.240 --> 01:06:33.560] years ago I didn't join under flannel donut it was like my I had like a personal account or [01:06:33.560 --> 01:06:39.380] something and it was like a revolving door for me like I was in and out in a second because it was [01:06:39.380 --> 01:06:47.240] just sort of like it felt like not a place to grow it didn't feel like a place to like meet [01:06:47.240 --> 01:06:54.100] people um it felt like I know that like people were sort of saying elitist and like laughing about that [01:06:54.100 --> 01:07:03.650] but that to me I was just like at that point I was like it like it as that kind of user that's how it [01:07:03.650 --> 01:07:09.150] felt you know was like this isn't you know this is a place for like um I don't know it's like a [01:07:09.150 --> 01:07:16.450] club or something and then after like a while after that maybe I think like two years ago I [01:07:16.450 --> 01:07:22.890] joined as flannel donut and it was it was a little better but I still didn't spend a lot of time [01:07:22.890 --> 01:07:30.650] And it wasn't until, like, it was, you know, sold or taken over that, like, that I really started [01:07:30.650 --> 01:07:36.690] spending time here. And it was because the engagement was real. You could have a conversation [01:07:36.690 --> 01:07:42.210] where somebody was, like, posting a picture of tomatoes from their garden. And then, you know, [01:07:42.210 --> 01:07:46.310] you're like, oh, I'm going to post my tomato. You know, it's just like stuff like that. That's, like, [01:07:46.310 --> 01:07:55.610] real human engagement that, like, you know, is what kind of kept me coming back, as, you know, [01:07:55.610 --> 01:08:02.250] silly as that might sound, but it was just like, it's completely true. And, you know, all of that [01:08:02.250 --> 01:08:08.290] to now, like, I can't even believe, like, I mean, this is, we're talking less than a year ago, [01:08:08.950 --> 01:08:14.490] like, where are, you know, where are we? I mean, we had just finished new day one, you know, [01:08:14.490 --> 01:08:21.450] base camp hasn't even happened yet you know NFT Paris was still something that was on the horizon [01:08:21.450 --> 01:08:30.750] again um you know and it's just like it's it's crazy what can happen in a year in this space just how [01:08:30.750 --> 01:08:41.090] much can just be um like broken apart and you know you just see people leaving the space and [01:08:41.090 --> 01:08:46.450] it's really heartbreaking because there's so much that has been built here. And people have put [01:08:46.450 --> 01:08:55.050] so much time into their apps and their games and, you know, have taken risks and hired teams of [01:08:55.050 --> 01:09:00.930] people and just like, I mean, all that stuff has has gone, you know, just been poured in. [01:09:02.150 --> 01:09:08.490] That's why I'm like here in this town hall space because I don't want to see that sort of thing go [01:09:08.490 --> 01:09:14.760] way. But I understand, you know, I understand where we're at right now. And I just wanted to say, [01:09:14.760 --> 01:09:22.950] like, if the cost of running this can come way down, I'm happy to pay an annual fee to be a user [01:09:22.950 --> 01:09:24.330] just to support. [01:09:24.450 --> 01:09:34.090] You're mute. Okay, Flannel, go ahead. Go ahead, Flannel. Go ahead, Flannel. Go, go, go, go, [01:09:34.090 --> 01:09:39.520] Flannel. I just, what are you talking about? [01:09:40.920 --> 01:09:43.620] No, no, no, no. The thing is that your mic was going to. [01:09:43.640 --> 01:09:46.880] going through the mic of Cassie, so Cassie had to mute herself. [01:09:46.880 --> 01:09:49.190] So you can continue. [01:09:49.190 --> 01:09:49.790] Oh, no, sorry. [01:09:49.790 --> 01:09:50.330] OK. [01:09:50.330 --> 01:09:56.510] Yeah, I was just saying if the cost of running it can come way down, which I've heard, [01:09:56.510 --> 01:10:02.630] you know, mentioned here a little bit, you know, I'm happy to support and pay an annual [01:10:02.630 --> 01:10:07.490] fee just, you know, just to be a user here or whatever. [01:10:07.490 --> 01:10:13.850] I know that when it came time for that annual cost to renew, a lot of people were questioning [01:10:13.870 --> 01:10:44.260] whether they should renew it. And, you know, I know that for me, I was just like, I'm happy to renew it because I, you know, believe in the social network that's here, even as small as it is. And I think there's value here for people. But again, it's, it's, you know, I think Royal was talking earlier. Like it's coming, it's, it's going back to that point of like, you know, this has to be a place where people aren't, um, feel. [01:10:44.280 --> 01:10:52.960] feeling like they have to understand the technical side of it, you know, to play a part here or belong or whatever. [01:10:55.120 --> 01:11:11.050] You know, like, for me, I, you know, I came to like, you know, I came to like, you know, the on-chain space originally as a creator on the GameStop NFT marketplace by way of the saga that was happening on GameStop. [01:11:14.730 --> 01:11:18.450] You know, but it wasn't anything technical that drew me here. [01:11:18.530 --> 01:11:21.010] I was like, I had to learn that stuff and I was happy to. [01:11:21.630 --> 01:11:26.550] But like what bridged that for me and what like encouraged me to learn all that [01:11:26.550 --> 01:11:32.090] and become like a little bit more technically minded was community. [01:11:32.630 --> 01:11:35.390] You know, it was like people making me laugh. [01:11:35.510 --> 01:11:38.870] It was people making me want to share pictures of my tomatoes. [01:11:38.870 --> 01:11:43.450] You know, it was like waking up every morning to be a part of something. [01:11:43.450 --> 01:12:13.230] And, you know, just I just remember waking up and like before I even like lifted my head off my pillow, like I would look at my wallet and just look at all the NFTs I received while I was sleeping. You know, it's shit like that that I think like we we forget, you know, because, you know, I think a lot of just a lot of the tokenization like dominating a lot of the conversation and I'm not knocking that. It's it's incredibly useful. It's it's definitely helped us. [01:12:13.550 --> 01:12:17.450] in a number of ways, stay alive as a studio. [01:12:18.950 --> 01:12:23.470] But like, I think when everything has to be, like, become about trading, [01:12:24.500 --> 01:12:28.220] like, that's where community just, you know, it's, I don't know, [01:12:28.280 --> 01:12:29.640] in my mind, you lose that. [01:12:30.300 --> 01:12:35.240] So for what it's worth, I, you know, all this, you know, suffice it to say, [01:12:35.240 --> 01:12:40.540] like, I'm happy to pitch in an annual cost just to, you know, [01:12:40.580 --> 01:12:42.680] to help keep things afloat. [01:12:42.680 --> 01:13:09.800] Yeah, and I think actually, like, to clarify, like, what the, again, with the longitudinal vision of what we were doing with Hypersnap and how that comes into play, like, for a lot of audiences, especially in the Western world, like, an annual fee of, like, you know, whatever, or a monthly fee of, like, $4 or $5 is probably something most people could stomach. [01:13:09.800 --> 01:13:15.900] But the reality is that, like, no, Farcaster has users all over the world, and there's a lot of regions that can't afford to do that. [01:13:16.420 --> 01:13:21.140] And so the vision that we were pursuing with Hypersnap was to make it self-sustaining in its own right. [01:13:21.940 --> 01:13:29.380] In particular, the token design that we have is meant to be such that people could run a Hypersnap node and earn Snap tokens. [01:13:29.380 --> 01:13:34.040] You can be a user on Farcaster and earn SNAP tokens. [01:13:34.160 --> 01:13:37.760] You can build apps or clients or whatever and earn SNAP tokens. [01:13:37.760 --> 01:14:07.740] And in of itself, it kind of becomes a self-sustaining economy so that, you know, people don't have to do, people don't have to pay an annual fee because like that is, there's basically two problems when you insert a fee into the mix, especially if it's like a requirement to even participate, is one, it's, it changes the scope of like overall scale of the audience. And two, on an early stage, which I mean, I know Farcaster's been around for a few. [01:14:07.760 --> 01:14:12.220] years, but realistically, like, compared to Twitter or threads or whatever, we're very early [01:14:12.220 --> 01:14:19.180] stage in size to an early stage social protocol, like, that's immediately, like, a big wall [01:14:19.180 --> 01:14:25.900] for a lot of users. And while that can also be, like, a quality, you know, control, it's also [01:14:25.900 --> 01:14:33.980] an equality barrier. And I don't think that, like, that necessarily is good for the longevity [01:14:33.980 --> 01:14:41.260] of the protocol. That's why I championed the idea of removing pro-level features on the [01:14:41.260 --> 01:14:48.320] protocol. If you have pro, you can get four embeds versus two on a post or the background [01:14:48.320 --> 01:14:54.380] image on your profile or anything like that. That seems a bit, I mean, speaking candidly, [01:14:54.380 --> 01:15:02.360] it's obscene to me. But I think there are ways that clients can make revenue. We're doing that [01:15:02.360 --> 01:15:06.220] with quorum apex, but the way that we're approaching it is the same way we're approaching the [01:15:06.220 --> 01:15:11.340] protocol. It's an idea to make everyone win so that if you're paying for the quorum apex subscription, [01:15:11.340 --> 01:15:18.140] which would be basically our equivalent to Neynar apps Farcaster Pro, it's a rev split. [01:15:18.380 --> 01:15:25.160] So like the up to four spaces of your choosing gets some of the amount that you're paying [01:15:25.160 --> 01:15:32.340] as well as the developers of the quorum app. And that's a way to help sustain the quorum app. [01:15:32.360 --> 01:15:35.940] as well as sustain the communities that you're participating in. [01:15:36.280 --> 01:15:40.420] And I think that works better than just like the Farcaster Pro contract [01:15:40.420 --> 01:15:43.640] where the money literally just goes to a singular entity that controls the contract [01:15:43.640 --> 01:15:47.540] and all of their clients just have to respect the fact that the protocol [01:15:47.540 --> 01:15:52.980] was basically giving advantages to users that paid that fee. [01:15:54.930 --> 01:15:57.290] Yeah, Trissel, I'll bring you back up. [01:15:59.390 --> 01:16:03.390] Do you mind if I respond to that? [01:16:03.450 --> 01:16:10.500] at all. Are you open to- Yeah, go for it. Okay. I wonder if it's not a, like, an either-or type of [01:16:10.500 --> 01:16:18.760] thing, but it's kind type of a thing. Just for people that want to, you know, help out at this [01:16:18.760 --> 01:16:28.370] current stage at least. I have to admit, I, like, everything that you just said, I think [01:16:28.370 --> 01:16:34.520] is really cool sounding, but I, like, I don't, I know that I, I remember. I remember. [01:16:34.540 --> 01:16:41.760] when like snaps came into uh being like as a as an option on farcaster but i didn't use it [01:16:41.760 --> 01:16:47.040] because i didn't get it you know and and um and that's not nothing you know that's not anything [01:16:47.040 --> 01:16:54.800] against you that's that's fully like um on me but but if i'm tasked with with bringing a bunch of [01:16:54.800 --> 01:17:00.640] my people into the space my you know like the animators and you know all the people from from my team [01:17:00.640 --> 01:17:08.960] to help, you know, build out this space and certainly build it with a creative mindset with, [01:17:08.960 --> 01:17:15.120] you know, entertainment and just fun, fun things to look at. Those people aren't going to, [01:17:15.120 --> 01:17:20.640] are not going to get it as far as that goes. They're going to get it in terms of like, [01:17:20.640 --> 01:17:27.210] well, I know that I've got a wallet on Farcaster, and I know that if Farcaster, you know, [01:17:27.210 --> 01:17:37.900] needs the help from, you know, the people that do have $100 to say, okay, I can pitch in $100 [01:17:37.900 --> 01:17:45.720] bucks to help sustain this effort. Maybe it's as easy as just buying an NFT and it doesn't [01:17:45.720 --> 01:17:51.100] have to be required or anything, but it's just something of support so that that revenue is coming [01:17:51.100 --> 01:17:57.760] in. If it's not, if it's a matter of like, well, we just got to learn how to, um, [01:17:57.920 --> 01:18:03.700] do it another way. I mean, I can't, I'm so sorry, I can't even quote you with what you are saying. [01:18:03.700 --> 01:18:14.120] Like, um, I just, I am concerned that it will flounder because, just because of that barrier. [01:18:14.120 --> 01:18:20.340] Like, like, you're talking to me about, um, about a financial barrier and I'm talking to you [01:18:20.340 --> 01:18:27.260] about a, like, like a knowledge and education barrier. And I think that's been like a huge barrier for, [01:18:28.080 --> 01:18:35.060] for people joining as well on top of like just what you know my my personal opinion is when like just [01:18:35.060 --> 01:18:45.220] and I think honestly almost every if not every on chain uh entity uh that's that's out there I think [01:18:45.220 --> 01:18:52.780] has has failed in terms of like real marketing but um I don't know for what it's worth I like I'm [01:18:52.780 --> 01:18:58.760] I guess what I'm trying to say is I think what you're saying is [01:18:58.780 --> 01:19:04.400] sounds really cool, but I don't get it. And I feel like I might be an average user. And like [01:19:04.400 --> 01:19:13.740] that seems to me like maybe the audience that's going to grow, you know. Yeah. And I really appreciate [01:19:13.740 --> 01:19:20.900] that feedback. That's super helpful in refining how we communicate things. Because yeah, the reality is [01:19:20.900 --> 01:19:28.340] like I'm not opposed to the idea at all of like reviving something like Farcaster Pro in a way [01:19:28.340 --> 01:19:31.040] that helps support the development of the protocol, [01:19:31.160 --> 01:19:32.860] the development of clients, and so on. [01:19:32.920 --> 01:19:34.460] Like that's totally reasonable. [01:19:35.000 --> 01:19:37.600] The thing that I was specifically taking issue with [01:19:37.600 --> 01:19:40.240] was that Farcaster Pro was a feature gate [01:19:40.240 --> 01:19:42.820] for protocol level things, [01:19:42.820 --> 01:19:45.020] like being able to cast more images [01:19:45.020 --> 01:19:47.440] than people who aren't paying for Farcaster Pro [01:19:47.440 --> 01:19:49.960] or have special things on their profile [01:19:49.960 --> 01:19:52.940] that actually relate to information about the user [01:19:52.940 --> 01:19:55.560] instead of just like a cool, you know, [01:19:55.640 --> 01:19:57.600] like a ring around your profile or something, [01:19:57.640 --> 01:19:58.320] which we did do that. [01:19:58.340 --> 01:20:03.220] briefly. We did have that for Farcaster Pro at the beginning. If you search for Halo, [01:20:03.220 --> 01:20:10.380] you'll probably find some old remarks to it. But anyway, so no, like, I'm not opposed to that idea, [01:20:10.380 --> 01:20:14.780] and I think that's totally reasonable to do. I just mean that, like, specifically, I don't want [01:20:14.780 --> 01:20:19.500] to limit users' ability to communicate on the platform, which is something that Farcaster Pro did [01:20:19.500 --> 01:20:36.840] do. And that's what I mean. Sorry, I took a bite of my bagel at the worst possible time. [01:20:38.200 --> 01:20:46.880] I just wanted to say, yeah, that I mean, case and point, I didn't even know that Farcaster Pro came with additional features. [01:20:46.880 --> 01:20:59.980] So, you know, for what it's worth, I just thought that it was a thing of, you know, support for having the, you know, keeping the space around and allowing people to continue to develop. [01:21:00.780 --> 01:21:08.080] So whatever you decide to do, just know that you have my support and I don't need any. [01:21:08.200 --> 01:21:09.920] bells and whistles attached to it. [01:21:11.430 --> 01:21:12.390] Really appreciate that. [01:21:12.610 --> 01:21:13.330] Thank you. [01:21:14.010 --> 01:21:20.590] But yeah, Zawofi, like, I understand, I understand your perspective, but I think that, like, [01:21:20.890 --> 01:21:25.990] I know there's a few people who have echoed that sentiment, and for those who aren't [01:21:25.990 --> 01:21:30.810] reading the chat, and because this is going to be recorded, I'll reread what he just [01:21:30.810 --> 01:21:31.130] said. [01:21:32.150 --> 01:21:36.490] But he specifically said, got a hop, been fun seeing you all. [01:21:36.570 --> 01:21:38.370] I think you should just reboot the whole thing. [01:21:38.370 --> 01:21:41.590] everyone important will follow you and you don't have to give up anything or negotiate with [01:21:41.590 --> 01:21:47.310] anyone build it the way you want instead trying to fix this dumpster fire um i i want to say two things to that [01:21:47.310 --> 01:21:55.250] one farcaster has like the the app the name etc has a lot of goodwill built up around it that would [01:21:55.250 --> 01:22:04.290] be so sad to lose and two uh yeah it's pt yes but it's our dumpster fire exactly and like [01:22:04.290 --> 01:22:08.350] the reality is is that it's it's hard to bootstrap a social network [01:22:08.370 --> 01:22:12.230] it's really hard to bootstrap a social network from another one. [01:22:13.090 --> 01:22:16.390] And so, like, instead, like, why not just fix the things? [01:22:16.510 --> 01:22:17.890] These things are not hard to fix. [01:22:17.990 --> 01:22:18.990] They just need to be fixed. [01:22:21.540 --> 01:22:24.460] So, yeah, that's my personal opinion about it. [01:22:24.560 --> 01:22:27.380] I know some people will feel differently and think that, like, [01:22:27.500 --> 01:22:30.420] well, it's too small of a protocol to worry about, [01:22:30.500 --> 01:22:33.420] but legitimately, like, Farcaster's logos even appeared at the Super Bowl. [01:22:33.420 --> 01:22:39.080] Like, we have, like, subconscious brand recognition that maybe some people, [01:22:39.100 --> 01:22:46.420] aren't even aware of like there's there is longevity to farcaster it's very as rich put it's very [01:22:46.420 --> 01:22:59.450] lindy we need to like actually let it survive all right so we're we're almost up at the hour and a half [01:22:59.450 --> 01:23:08.430] mark uh i wanted to um double check real quick i think i had one other item that i did want to [01:23:08.430 --> 01:23:12.930] bring up on this call but let me double check i may have already said it i tend to just like shotgun [01:23:12.930 --> 01:23:20.800] un-ramble, so let me make sure I didn't drop something here. It is the unfortunate side of me [01:23:20.800 --> 01:23:24.420] is that you will get stream of consciousness from me with no filter, and sometimes that's good, [01:23:24.480 --> 01:23:31.300] sometimes that's bad. That is also exactly why I understand you, because I am literally the [01:23:31.300 --> 01:23:38.680] same way. Oh, right, right. So the ongoing plans around Hypersnap's. So like I said, [01:23:38.980 --> 01:23:43.760] regardless of outcomes, Hypersnap's going to keep on trudging forward. The snap token, obviously, [01:23:43.760 --> 01:23:47.660] as a part of that. I already mentioned the snap compute. [01:23:47.860 --> 01:23:53.520] item, so I'm not going to revive that at the moment. But I do want to mention real quick, [01:23:53.520 --> 01:24:00.840] in terms of like timelines, because obviously Hypersnap has its own development schedule, [01:24:00.940 --> 01:24:08.600] its own timeline, its own objectives. So in terms of the proof of work, PR, that like the code [01:24:08.600 --> 01:24:14.240] change required, like the release required to move Hypersnap into an actual protocol that is [01:24:14.240 --> 01:24:21.360] mining actively. We're aiming to get that released as soon as possible. The big thing that we [01:24:21.360 --> 01:24:26.280] were trying to handle for the longest time was the, you know, trying to stay in parity with [01:24:26.280 --> 01:24:31.340] Snapchain. Then community rallied together around a proposal to break away from compatibility after [01:24:31.340 --> 01:24:36.260] user blocks was added to the protocol. Not going to revive that discussion right now, but like the [01:24:36.260 --> 01:24:43.480] point is, is that like, we're going to be updating the proof of work PR to bring in the recent changes [01:24:43.480 --> 01:24:47.420] that were added to hypersnap to the mainline branch. [01:24:47.780 --> 01:24:54.440] And we'll be rolling out the release for proof of work basically as fast as humanly possible. [01:24:54.700 --> 01:24:57.000] We've already gone through many, many rounds of audits. [01:24:57.000 --> 01:25:00.460] And thank you, again, Flore, for all the work that you put into that. [01:25:00.600 --> 01:25:02.040] Like, it was immensely useful. [01:25:02.220 --> 01:25:03.220] You found so much. [01:25:03.420 --> 01:25:07.860] Same with you, Felarami, with the audit work that Archibod was doing. [01:25:08.360 --> 01:25:11.900] It did catch some things, and that was really, really helpful to see. [01:25:12.000 --> 01:25:13.380] And I greatly appreciate that. [01:25:13.480 --> 01:25:17.880] all the time that both of you have spent in helping make the protocol stronger. [01:25:19.040 --> 01:25:22.160] That's how we all win and survive together. [01:25:25.540 --> 01:25:27.280] Can I ask something? [01:25:28.080 --> 01:25:28.740] Yeah, go ahead. [01:25:29.760 --> 01:25:32.400] So what do you have in mind? [01:25:32.400 --> 01:25:36.980] Do you have in mind raising capital to buy Farcaster, [01:25:37.140 --> 01:25:42.220] or do you have in mind having our own hypersnap thing? [01:25:42.820 --> 01:25:43.240] Oh, okay. [01:25:43.400 --> 01:25:45.160] So you might have missed it because, [01:25:45.180 --> 01:25:51.020] there was a lot of, like, yeah, there was a lot of glitches on this space, but a high level, [01:25:51.220 --> 01:25:55.940] we are going to, like, I have a few folks that I'm talking with to organize a complete proposal [01:25:55.940 --> 01:26:01.220] where we're going to position this as something that they could, if Neynar wants to pursue this route, [01:26:01.700 --> 01:26:09.760] that we can basically set up a transition vehicle where they can capitalize it for a couple [01:26:09.760 --> 01:26:14.300] months so that, you know, if our caster is able to run, we can reduce the costs of the overall [01:26:14.300 --> 01:26:21.400] infrastructure down to basically nothing so that we don't have to worry about that. And then in that [01:26:21.400 --> 01:26:29.300] time, pursue funding from interested parties that believes in the mission. I know a few folks [01:26:29.300 --> 01:26:33.720] who would be very good to talk to about that, and we've already started some of those discussions. [01:26:35.220 --> 01:26:39.740] So that's the high-level view. And just to answer real quick, since I some of [01:26:39.760 --> 01:26:41.360] a conscious essay ask about it. [01:26:41.880 --> 01:26:48.100] I just want to mention real quick, no, we're not, like, I didn't say we're not going to [01:26:48.100 --> 01:26:49.120] revive the SNAP token. [01:26:49.460 --> 01:26:53.960] I said that we're not going to revive the discussion about what I was talking about [01:26:53.960 --> 01:26:58.140] with the SNAP token for the remainder of this call, just because there's a lot of [01:26:58.140 --> 01:26:59.240] different questions I want to answer. [01:26:59.340 --> 01:27:00.760] No, SNAP token's very on. [01:27:01.700 --> 01:27:02.540] Oh, hell yeah. [01:27:02.660 --> 01:27:04.700] If Haberdashery is interested, even better. [01:27:05.200 --> 01:27:09.840] This could be fucking insane with all the different groups of Farcaster. [01:27:09.880 --> 01:27:17.800] coming together to make this happen hell yeah hell yeah um for example for example [01:27:17.800 --> 01:27:24.680] cassie in way okay so with the work of hyper the work of hyper snap is great the implementation [01:27:25.320 --> 01:27:34.090] great so in the case that for example we buy farcaster do we implement snap chain into [01:27:34.090 --> 01:27:39.850] hyper snap so we have these all these uh free signups uh uh [01:27:40.010 --> 01:27:45.250] not premium things, or do we go back to Snapchain and build on top of that? [01:27:45.330 --> 01:27:46.730] How will it work? [01:27:47.620 --> 01:27:50.660] Okay, so, yeah, two quick things. [01:27:51.260 --> 01:27:55.640] One, the idea would be moving to Hypersnap, not moving back to Snapchain. [01:27:56.320 --> 01:27:57.460] Because for clarity's sake, [01:27:58.800 --> 01:28:03.840] Snapchain, or sorry, Hypersnap is literally a superset of Snapchain. [01:28:04.340 --> 01:28:06.220] The only difference is we don't prune. [01:28:06.980 --> 01:28:10.120] Like, we prune on one copy of the tree to keep compact. [01:28:10.140 --> 01:28:17.560] compatibility with the blocks so that we, like, the roots of the blocks are matching just for [01:28:17.560 --> 01:28:24.320] syncing purposes. But, no, Hypersnap doesn't prune content, so storage, like storage fees don't [01:28:24.320 --> 01:28:29.460] apply to Hypersnap. So, no, the idea would be to move forward with Hypersnap. [01:28:33.580 --> 01:28:39.020] That's great. Yeah. And some people are asking when Snap will deploy on Solana. [01:28:39.020 --> 01:28:45.400] And to be clear, Snapchain and Hypersnap is a blockchain for information. [01:28:46.200 --> 01:28:47.600] No, that's not what they're asking. [01:28:48.220 --> 01:28:55.260] They're asking when the bridge contract for Ethereum, like we have the bridge contract. [01:28:55.520 --> 01:29:02.420] So, yeah, if you, I don't know if it's Senior Jack or SR Jack or something else. [01:29:03.420 --> 01:29:08.340] But yeah, to answer your question, the underlying proof of work PR, [01:29:09.020 --> 01:29:13.160] supports any chain practically, like any major chain. [01:29:13.580 --> 01:29:21.680] So if you're talking any EVM chain or Solana for non-EVM or Quilibrium for non-EVM, [01:29:22.240 --> 01:29:24.600] we support all of those chain targets. [01:29:24.600 --> 01:29:30.400] So when we switch over to the proof of work like model and the network upgrades to that, [01:29:30.960 --> 01:29:36.580] then it enables us to deploy a contract to any of those networks and bridging works implicitly. [01:29:37.020 --> 01:29:39.000] And same with bridging back onto. [01:29:39.020 --> 01:29:40.560] hypersnap itself. [01:29:41.560 --> 01:29:43.400] So the answer is [01:29:43.400 --> 01:29:45.060] basically as soon as the proof of work [01:29:45.060 --> 01:29:47.300] PR is out and as part [01:29:47.300 --> 01:29:49.180] of the upgrade, as long as that's out, then [01:29:49.180 --> 01:29:52.270] we can do that. And I want to [01:29:52.270 --> 01:29:54.270] say these guys, everyone, hearing [01:29:54.270 --> 01:29:56.590] Cassie, Cassie was [01:29:56.590 --> 01:29:58.750] so forward thinking [01:29:58.750 --> 01:30:00.550] than when she [01:30:00.550 --> 01:30:03.350] deployed the SNAP, the token [01:30:03.350 --> 01:30:05.610] snap, we were all like, why [01:30:05.610 --> 01:30:08.130] you didn't do it on base and you did [01:30:08.130 --> 01:30:10.090] on Ethereum, on those, on [01:30:10.110 --> 01:30:15.270] those days, Ethereum transaction fees were really high. [01:30:15.270 --> 01:30:17.950] And now it makes sense because now based, [01:30:17.950 --> 01:30:20.490] basically retired from Farcaster, [01:30:20.490 --> 01:30:21.610] there's no support. [01:30:21.610 --> 01:30:25.250] And Ethereum is the main thing, right? [01:30:25.250 --> 01:30:35.150] And making SNAP token be on the L1 and also multi-chain, right? [01:30:35.150 --> 01:30:37.070] That's the main thing about the token. [01:30:37.070 --> 01:30:40.150] It's not that it's in just one. [01:30:40.750 --> 01:30:44.020] blockchain, it's multi-chain. [01:30:44.860 --> 01:30:45.940] So I think [01:30:45.940 --> 01:30:49.120] what Cassie has thought about everything, [01:30:49.540 --> 01:30:51.740] she has really forward thinking. [01:30:52.040 --> 01:30:55.140] So I don't think there's anyone better than Cassie [01:30:55.140 --> 01:31:00.260] if we're talking about moving Farcaster forward. [01:31:00.800 --> 01:31:03.620] And also I would like to point out that [01:31:03.620 --> 01:31:08.200] this is a long game. [01:31:08.200 --> 01:31:12.420] Like this is not like a quick back kind of [01:31:12.480 --> 01:31:21.140] system. Like, this is a social network, and I ask publicly to reach if they had a runway to [01:31:21.140 --> 01:31:28.280] keep doing this. So I'm not sure why they're pulling out of our caster. Maybe they want to [01:31:28.280 --> 01:31:33.360] pursue something that makes them more money, or they just are bored of this. I'm not sure, [01:31:34.040 --> 01:31:39.300] but it's weird for me all this. Like, oh, like they have the money, they have the funding. [01:31:39.300 --> 01:31:42.460] Why don't they keep? Like, for example, a good. [01:31:42.480 --> 01:31:44.720] A good example of this is Discord. [01:31:45.040 --> 01:31:51.060] Discord for many, many years, they didn't have any subscription, any payment, anything. [01:31:51.700 --> 01:31:55.280] Everyone was asking how do they make money? [01:31:55.380 --> 01:31:58.800] They were just running out of venture capital. [01:31:58.800 --> 01:32:06.360] And essentially, when they had this massive, massive, massive user base, they had nitro. [01:32:06.580 --> 01:32:10.860] They had orbs and different kind of monetization. [01:32:10.860 --> 01:32:15.020] but they played the long time, the long running. [01:32:15.320 --> 01:32:17.900] I don't know how it's saying in English, but you get me, right? [01:32:18.580 --> 01:32:23.460] Yeah, and I mean, just to be clear, because, like, you asked a question that I think Rish already answered, [01:32:23.560 --> 01:32:28.500] and I want to be fair to him and not leave it up to speculation, because, like, I may have my criticisms [01:32:28.500 --> 01:32:36.660] of Neynar, but I think that in terms of, like, how startups should be run, you had asked him [01:32:36.660 --> 01:32:40.840] on a dev call a couple months back about Neynar's runway, and he said, [01:32:40.860 --> 01:32:45.280] said on the call that Neynar had sufficient runway to, I think he even said to run indefinitely, [01:32:45.540 --> 01:32:50.980] but at least run a very long time. And I don't think that changed at all. Like he even indicated [01:32:50.980 --> 01:32:57.420] when somebody asked if it was like runway related, he specifically said that no, it wasn't [01:32:57.420 --> 01:33:05.640] runway related. It was, you know, whether or not the, again, I don't want to, I don't want [01:33:05.640 --> 01:33:10.820] to say something different than what he said. But like if I, if I could summarize, it was [01:33:10.820 --> 01:33:15.360] basically like it just didn't feel like it was right for them to keep going. [01:33:15.560 --> 01:33:20.300] That it was, you know, when you start a company, just speaking very candidly, [01:33:20.360 --> 01:33:24.700] because I have, I've started companies before, I've, like, raised before, I've sold before. [01:33:26.260 --> 01:33:29.680] The reality is that startups are really hard. [01:33:29.880 --> 01:33:30.980] They're hard for two reasons. [01:33:30.980 --> 01:33:35.660] One, because you're having to wear so many hats that, you know, a large established [01:33:35.660 --> 01:33:37.060] company you don't have to worry about. [01:33:37.060 --> 01:33:44.560] And two, you're always in the face of customer criticism in ways that most companies, [01:33:44.840 --> 01:33:48.620] like larger companies are shielded from. And you just kind of have to have like a really [01:33:48.620 --> 01:33:53.300] thick skin to that. And I think that Rish does. I'm not, I'm not making any assertion to the [01:33:53.300 --> 01:34:00.280] contrary, but it can still wear at you. And three, life happens, like unexpected things in life [01:34:00.280 --> 01:34:06.140] happen. The reason I moved to Kansas, for example, was because I have family that's aging out. [01:34:06.140 --> 01:34:11.060] and I want to be there around them as much as I can. [01:34:11.700 --> 01:34:16.960] And those are the kinds of things that, like, as a startup founder, you have to balance so hard. [01:34:17.540 --> 01:34:20.320] I've personally missed a lot of things in my life. [01:34:20.420 --> 01:34:23.240] I've missed last moments with family. [01:34:23.400 --> 01:34:24.580] I've missed funerals. [01:34:24.960 --> 01:34:28.180] I've, you know, it's just, it's tough. [01:34:28.900 --> 01:34:35.840] And sometimes you think that you can do it, and sometimes life will throw you some hands. [01:34:36.140 --> 01:34:39.140] and show you that sometimes it's harder than you think. [01:34:39.820 --> 01:34:41.660] And that's just, that's the reality of the game. [01:34:42.740 --> 01:34:47.180] But, you know, the point of view, I'm trying to carry on with this, [01:34:47.260 --> 01:34:53.480] and what I'm trying to pursue is that this survives, like, beyond the scope of a company, [01:34:53.580 --> 01:34:56.580] that this is something sustainable, even without a company, [01:34:56.580 --> 01:35:01.960] but at the very least, is sustainable with a company that can be run by people [01:35:01.960 --> 01:35:05.740] who are willing to keep pushing in spite of the odds. [01:35:06.140 --> 01:35:14.160] So can I ask, what is it that, I know people are asking or talking about the next 30 days, [01:35:14.300 --> 01:35:17.320] what is it that you feel like you need right now? [01:35:17.440 --> 01:35:20.960] Like, is it really just you putting this proposal together? [01:35:21.340 --> 01:35:22.880] Or like, do you have a team? [01:35:22.960 --> 01:35:24.240] Are you looking for a team? [01:35:24.920 --> 01:35:26.280] You know, what do you feel like you need? [01:35:26.860 --> 01:35:27.020] Yeah. [01:35:27.160 --> 01:35:32.260] So, I mean, in terms of like things that I would actively call out as unknown unknowns that [01:35:32.260 --> 01:35:38.160] really need to be getting into known unknowns is one, [01:35:38.540 --> 01:36:08.200] From the Neynar side, I'm going to ask for clarification on this in our proposal in the first place, like the intro of our proposal, is understanding, one, what is the actual burn down? Like, saying 100K a month, what is the burn down actually relate to? Is that just infra, or is that infra for Farcaster and the Neynar services? Is that including, like, labor? Like, what is that 100K figure actually? [01:36:08.540 --> 01:36:38.540] Um, the second is not for Neynar, but, um, interested parties that want to help build and how, um, like, adept, how quickly available, like, because if this deal moves forward, it's probably going to move forward quickly. How can we get people on board to, to keep building? Uh, like, some people know this already because, like, I've talked about Quilibrium a lot in the past, but like, Quilibrium is its own company and we, uh, like, if that ends up being as part of the [01:36:38.540 --> 01:36:44.020] deal that like Quilibrium would be the ultimate inheritor of Neynar assets and that's how the deal [01:36:44.020 --> 01:36:49.300] gets structured. Cool. We do have developers at Quilibrium as well, including folks who have [01:36:49.300 --> 01:36:56.780] worked on quorum. But the reality is that like, you know, we're a very, very, very small team [01:36:56.780 --> 01:37:05.200] and to make this work, including if we can actually secure funding from whether it's a VC or not, [01:37:05.260 --> 01:37:08.400] like I have my opinions about VCs because a lot of them are not good. [01:37:08.540 --> 01:37:11.540] there are some good ones out there. [01:37:11.640 --> 01:37:13.080] I know there are some good ones out there. [01:37:13.200 --> 01:37:15.200] I've spoken with some. [01:37:16.840 --> 01:37:20.880] As long as they are not putting any kind of pressure on the company [01:37:20.880 --> 01:37:22.820] to enter into sort of token deals, [01:37:22.900 --> 01:37:24.260] which a lot of the crypto vCs do, [01:37:24.340 --> 01:37:25.340] practically all of them do, [01:37:26.080 --> 01:37:27.100] then that would be great. [01:37:27.180 --> 01:37:30.720] That would make it possible for us to really, like, move forward faster, [01:37:30.960 --> 01:37:32.360] get more talent. [01:37:32.820 --> 01:37:34.600] I do have to, of course, now add the disclaimer. [01:37:34.720 --> 01:37:36.220] This is not a solicitation for investment [01:37:36.220 --> 01:37:37.780] and it's not financial advice, blah, blah, blah. [01:37:38.540 --> 01:37:44.530] But, sorry, always going to lawyer up on that. [01:37:45.830 --> 01:37:53.710] It's just, it's the, but it is something that we have to, like, consider as part of how we produce the proposal is, like, how can we get funding into it? [01:37:54.250 --> 01:38:02.810] And how can we make this work for Neynar in a way that makes them happy as well, given the outcome that they're already pursuing? [01:38:10.520 --> 01:38:12.440] Some people are requesting to speak? [01:38:14.410 --> 01:38:16.050] I'm not seeing it on my end. [01:38:19.420 --> 01:38:22.300] I see SACC crypt, but I cannot. [01:38:23.840 --> 01:38:24.680] Oh, okay, wow. [01:38:24.800 --> 01:38:25.380] A whole bunch of people. [01:38:26.460 --> 01:38:27.460] Wow, okay, cool. [01:38:27.700 --> 01:38:27.980] Hang on. [01:38:33.990 --> 01:38:35.390] Okay, hopefully this does not break, [01:38:35.490 --> 01:38:37.290] because when we added eight users last time, [01:38:37.350 --> 01:38:37.950] that's when it broke. [01:38:39.900 --> 01:38:41.740] Doesn't seem like it broke to me. [01:38:43.150 --> 01:38:43.690] What's up, dude? [01:38:44.310 --> 01:38:45.830] I'm good, dude. [01:38:45.890 --> 01:38:46.650] How are you doing? [01:38:48.160 --> 01:38:50.960] You know, just hanging out on space for 90 minutes [01:38:50.960 --> 01:38:52.520] with some of my best Farcaster friends. [01:38:53.020 --> 01:38:53.960] Fuck yeah, dude. [01:38:53.960 --> 01:38:57.080] Yeah, I was literally on a TV. [01:38:57.100 --> 01:38:59.280] set today and I built [01:38:59.280 --> 01:39:00.340] a fucking roof [01:39:00.340 --> 01:39:03.000] but I'm so happy to be here [01:39:03.000 --> 01:39:05.240] and talking to all my Farcaster friends [01:39:05.240 --> 01:39:07.280] you know I have a joint ready [01:39:07.280 --> 01:39:09.060] and stuff but [01:39:09.060 --> 01:39:11.300] the reason why I wanted to jump [01:39:11.300 --> 01:39:13.240] on the call was I was just [01:39:13.240 --> 01:39:15.280] wondering it because you were talking about like [01:39:15.280 --> 01:39:17.480] burnout and like is it [01:39:17.480 --> 01:39:21.160] honestly like I get that running a social [01:39:21.160 --> 01:39:22.640] network is fucking hard [01:39:22.640 --> 01:39:25.240] but like and it [01:39:25.240 --> 01:39:27.140] took what Dan and V to run [01:39:27.160 --> 01:39:33.400] like a couple million dollars and like six years or five years maybe four years to burn [01:39:33.400 --> 01:39:39.160] up but took like rich and the main art team like seven months to burn out like what what's going on [01:39:39.160 --> 01:39:44.840] here guys like are you guys not like are you guys not eating enough or you guys not smoking enough [01:39:44.840 --> 01:39:50.360] or you guys not like you know like taking hikes enough like what's going what's going on [01:39:50.360 --> 01:39:57.530] i think i think they're they're following on the a i development thing i [01:39:57.550 --> 01:40:02.750] think they see themselves making more money on AI, maybe, than in crypto. [01:40:03.050 --> 01:40:05.610] That's my point of view. [01:40:06.050 --> 01:40:11.050] If that were the case, I think they would not be putting Neynar itself up for sale, [01:40:11.050 --> 01:40:15.410] like the Neynar services, like the AI tools and stuff, [01:40:15.510 --> 01:40:19.510] I think they would just spin out Farcaster into a separate entity and call it a day. [01:40:22.320 --> 01:40:26.800] And yeah, yeah, that's true Bradkew, but I don't know if that's necessarily what Rish meant. [01:40:26.800 --> 01:40:30.080] the yeah [01:40:30.080 --> 01:40:31.760] agreed KMAC [01:40:31.760 --> 01:40:33.720] let's not speculate about people [01:40:33.720 --> 01:40:36.440] but just speaking in generalities [01:40:36.440 --> 01:40:39.900] every single startup is hard [01:40:39.900 --> 01:40:42.540] social media startups [01:40:42.540 --> 01:40:44.640] doubly so because like [01:40:44.640 --> 01:40:47.400] when you build a tech startup in general [01:40:47.400 --> 01:40:50.480] you oftentimes don't have to actually interface [01:40:50.480 --> 01:40:52.500] with that many people [01:40:52.500 --> 01:40:54.880] and in fact you're not really interfacing with the general public [01:40:54.880 --> 01:40:56.420] you're interfacing with people [01:40:56.420 --> 01:40:59.540] who are in a need of whatever that product is. [01:41:00.100 --> 01:41:03.280] And on social media, like, that is your audience, [01:41:03.420 --> 01:41:05.600] or at least it should be your target audience, [01:41:05.680 --> 01:41:06.940] is literally everyone. [01:41:07.420 --> 01:41:09.540] And everyone can be hard. [01:41:09.860 --> 01:41:13.000] Everyone can be really hard to deal with if you, [01:41:13.000 --> 01:41:19.250] if you, like, just, like, take everything that's said at face value. [01:41:20.250 --> 01:41:22.930] I'm one of those people that likes to assume positive intent. [01:41:23.030 --> 01:41:25.590] But, yeah, I mean, like, still people are going to say shitty things to me, [01:41:25.590 --> 01:41:27.230] and I get shitty things all the time. [01:41:27.350 --> 01:41:33.130] Hell, the post I made on Twitter got some shit just talking about this space. [01:41:33.730 --> 01:41:38.510] And like when you put money into it as well, given it's crypto, that makes it even harder. [01:41:38.750 --> 01:41:40.670] Like it's just, it's a compounding effect. [01:41:41.290 --> 01:41:46.770] And so it's just one of those challenges. [01:41:47.090 --> 01:41:56.170] It's very easy to get burnt out because like the way I like to describe it is what the famous warrior poet of America [01:41:56.170 --> 01:42:01.590] Mike Tyson once said, which was everybody think they got a plan until they get punched in the mouth. [01:42:03.130 --> 01:42:06.690] It's just, it can be really surprising how hard it can get. [01:42:10.320 --> 01:42:17.560] Yeah, right. Yeah, I totally get it. Also, I, regarding ZKMAC, I wasn't trying to speculate about people. [01:42:17.560 --> 01:42:28.900] I was just trying to get down to, like, the reason why people keep on, like, people think that they're up for doing the, you know, doing the work for the network. [01:42:28.920 --> 01:43:00.330] And then they're like, oh, you know, seven months later, we're like, okay, I don't think we're the right people for it, you know. I was just trying to get, I was just trying to understand why, you know, they were trying to get to that. But I think Cassie explained it well. So, you know. Yeah. And I mean, of course, to the Neynar team, like, I know Rish has a newborn. Like, I wish him all the best. Like, newborns alone are like a startup of their own in terms of difficulty. Like, it's tough. [01:43:05.520 --> 01:43:07.540] Yeah, yeah, no, Peachy, you're absolutely right. [01:43:07.700 --> 01:43:10.680] Like, this wasn't really much of a choice for them in the first place. [01:43:10.680 --> 01:43:14.820] Like, they did have to take over for a Farcaster, otherwise their own startup would have died. [01:43:15.180 --> 01:43:19.180] I think that there's some flexibility to that, like, whether or not that could have been true. [01:43:19.380 --> 01:43:24.600] Like, Rish, adding the public posts saying that they want someone to take over for stewardship of Farcaster, [01:43:25.140 --> 01:43:29.430] if Dan and Varroon had done that, I don't know how that would have gone, [01:43:29.590 --> 01:43:33.630] but I don't think Neynar would have been the only ones throwing their hat in the ring. [01:43:33.630 --> 01:43:41.690] but at the same time like yeah that is a very valid point like that you know farcaster was literally [01:43:41.690 --> 01:43:47.450] their existence of farcaster was the existential threat to nanar if farcaster went away there's no nanar so [01:43:47.450 --> 01:43:54.350] i i totally get that too right okay i also get that too also what the fuck hell it jay why did you [01:43:54.350 --> 01:44:01.560] call cassia nike man people have come up with crazy theories about me because i speak hebrew somebody [01:44:01.560 --> 01:44:03.480] and because I worked with some folks [01:44:03.480 --> 01:44:05.260] that were based out of Israel, somebody [01:44:05.260 --> 01:44:07.660] called me like Mossad, [01:44:07.700 --> 01:44:09.860] and it was like a whole conspiracy theory for a while [01:44:09.860 --> 01:44:10.600] that was really funny. [01:44:24.500 --> 01:44:26.720] So I guess, given everything we talked [01:44:26.720 --> 01:44:28.980] about, and with the space [01:44:28.980 --> 01:44:31.960] kind of getting long in the tooth, and longer and longer pauses of [01:44:31.960 --> 01:44:34.020] nobody's talking, do we want to, like, [01:44:34.340 --> 01:44:36.620] sum up what the current [01:44:36.620 --> 01:44:38.640] state of affairs is, what we can [01:44:38.640 --> 01:44:40.680] do, call to action, [01:44:41.950 --> 01:44:42.610] that kind of a thing? [01:44:43.030 --> 01:44:44.450] Yeah, so I guess like, [01:44:44.590 --> 01:44:50.170] some quick calls to action. If you are interested in, like, if you're part of an organization, [01:44:50.170 --> 01:44:55.170] like Haberdashery mentioned, or somebody with a Haberdashery, I didn't see the name, so I'm sorry, [01:44:55.290 --> 01:45:02.010] I don't remember, mentioned that they might be interested in participating in this proposal as well. [01:45:02.830 --> 01:45:07.370] Anybody who's interested that, like, credibly interested, like, if you're just interested for [01:45:07.370 --> 01:45:12.390] information's sake, that's not going to be helpful for anybody. But if you are interested in actually [01:45:12.390 --> 01:45:19.850] like working together on this proposal. By all means, reach out. We have two different group chats [01:45:19.850 --> 01:45:26.030] going around this, obviously the core Hypersnap chat and then another one. So if you're interested [01:45:26.030 --> 01:45:31.050] in participating on this, by all means, let me know, reach out. We'll get you in. The Hypersnap [01:45:31.050 --> 01:45:36.770] channel is technically invite only, but only because some people were already starting to cause [01:45:36.770 --> 01:45:42.370] problems. It's crazy how quickly that happens with group chats. But again, reach out. Happy [01:45:42.390 --> 01:45:49.090] adja. So there's that. The second thing is the formulation of the proposal itself. We do need to [01:45:49.090 --> 01:45:55.870] work this out pretty quickly. So, you know, obviously we're going to do that. The third thing is, [01:45:56.310 --> 01:46:01.210] Royal, I absolutely love your go-to-market advice. And if you are genuinely interested in [01:46:01.210 --> 01:46:07.770] participating this on a more, like, involved level, rather than just relaying your views, [01:46:08.190 --> 01:46:12.610] either is fine. Always happy to hear your advice. I think it's very sound and credible. [01:46:12.870 --> 01:46:18.470] But like if you are actually interested in participating on a deeper level, please let me know. [01:46:21.280 --> 01:46:24.680] So that's, oh sorry, I'll have in your DMs, Cass, if we can hash it out. [01:46:25.060 --> 01:46:32.720] Okay, great. And then in terms of action items for people to be aware of, obviously, this is all very up in the air. [01:46:32.720 --> 01:46:35.920] Like, who knows what could happen? It's ultimately Neynar's decision to make. [01:46:36.720 --> 01:46:42.640] Hypersnap will continue to go on either way. Same with the SNAP token. And same with Quorum. [01:46:42.640 --> 01:46:46.680] Either way, there's, I mean, there's other clients on Hypersnap, too. [01:46:46.780 --> 01:46:49.400] I don't want to hog the air to just talk about Quorum. [01:46:49.640 --> 01:46:56.660] There's Stupid Social, which is like a, I think so far is just like a notification funnel. [01:46:57.960 --> 01:47:02.580] There's Lectern who's been building a, like, desktop Mac client. [01:47:03.380 --> 01:47:10.860] There's HeroCast that I believe has already integrated Hypersnap or plans to. [01:47:11.460 --> 01:47:13.740] There's other clients as well that are already, [01:47:13.760 --> 01:47:16.240] on the Hypersnap side of things [01:47:16.240 --> 01:47:18.240] and if you're a client builder [01:47:18.240 --> 01:47:20.000] obviously we're more than welcome [01:47:20.000 --> 01:47:21.700] or you're more than welcome to reach out to us [01:47:21.700 --> 01:47:23.940] we're very happy to help you get set up [01:47:23.940 --> 01:47:24.840] it should be very easy [01:47:24.840 --> 01:47:26.080] if you're already integrating with Snapchain [01:47:26.080 --> 01:47:27.880] it's even easier to integrate with Hypersnap [01:47:27.880 --> 01:47:29.980] but we are moving very fast [01:47:29.980 --> 01:47:32.340] we're breaking things so if things get weird [01:47:32.340 --> 01:47:34.200] don't be afraid to yell out of us either [01:47:34.200 --> 01:47:36.040] okay [01:47:36.040 --> 01:47:38.660] and good day [01:47:38.660 --> 01:47:41.200] everyone I need to say this [01:47:41.200 --> 01:47:43.740] for Kasta [01:47:43.740 --> 01:47:45.500] has got issue with [01:47:45.520 --> 01:47:53.300] funding and from my own perspective I think Bacosta is charging less [01:47:53.300 --> 01:48:02.800] hibes and developments do sustain yourself if they can have an internal [01:48:02.800 --> 01:48:11.340] generating revenue service that is if Neynar is charging 0.1 if other [01:48:11.340 --> 01:48:16.560] mini haps are charging for the services of AI being rendered [01:48:16.580 --> 01:48:27.100] So if we are not focusing on how to make revenue rather than spending up expenditure, it's all going to go to zero. [01:48:27.500 --> 01:48:46.590] And that's why Rish and every other person are crying out loud for people to come and salvage Farcaster at this point in time when there are billions, if not millions of firms available within the wallets of every users, including myself. [01:48:46.870 --> 01:48:51.170] I've invested a lot. I have my assets in it. [01:48:51.170 --> 01:49:02.650] So I keep wondering, why would a great app like Farcaster with so many baselines of account orders with huge funds, [01:49:02.990 --> 01:49:09.750] still crying out loud for someone to come and save them when we all appreciate Farcaster over Hex. [01:49:11.170 --> 01:49:17.490] So please, if there is a medium, Cassie, you can talk to whosoever in charge. [01:49:17.510 --> 01:49:46.370] charge. They should work on the modalities at this level of Farcaster age. It shouldn't be anything deteriorating to hear that Farcaster is charging 0.1 if it has to be weekly or per action or questions ask. These people are giving us solution for free and it is becoming a burden when you give out all yourself to others without getting anything in turn. So this is my own point of view. [01:49:47.600 --> 01:49:55.280] is too much rich with the people if Vitalik himself can be on this app and many other [01:49:55.280 --> 01:50:03.200] people like that and we're using the services and we get 0.01 swapping fee because we're [01:50:03.200 --> 01:50:12.560] on Farcaster. If you go to other exchanges or D-E-X to swap from the same blockchain, you'll be [01:50:12.560 --> 01:50:17.520] surprised to see 0.5 cents. Farcaster is charging [01:50:17.600 --> 01:50:24.240] way way too low and i think that's a benefit that is attracting many users around the globe [01:50:24.240 --> 01:50:30.100] but at the same time you shouldn't hurt they have it's shocking and embarrassing at this level [01:50:30.100 --> 01:50:36.500] i'm so so so pissed off to see someone putting on some posts that we need to sell for castor [01:50:36.500 --> 01:50:42.950] or the Neynar when fakista already can make it happen what's your what's your own view [01:50:42.950 --> 01:50:47.590] about this can see please speak about this we're wrong to charge users [01:50:47.990 --> 01:50:56.510] Is it wrong to have a way to get revenue, internet generated revenue, that is not going to be too expensive for every user to use? [01:50:57.970 --> 01:50:59.750] Please, let me know if you're wrong. [01:51:00.670 --> 01:51:02.870] Yeah, I appreciate your point of view. [01:51:03.630 --> 01:51:06.090] There's, I guess, three things I want to say to that. [01:51:06.090 --> 01:51:13.890] The first is that neither Merkle, the original owner, nor Neynar, they were not insolvent. [01:51:14.330 --> 01:51:17.650] And so, like, they didn't make these decisions based on revenue. [01:51:17.650 --> 01:51:19.690] So that was never a problem for them. [01:51:19.810 --> 01:51:21.090] They were cash positive. [01:51:22.370 --> 01:51:29.870] The second thing I want to say is like there should be no opposition to a protocol that can make revenue. [01:51:29.970 --> 01:51:31.570] And I think there's many ways that they can. [01:51:31.970 --> 01:51:35.990] Obviously, we have our tokenomics vision with the SNAP token on how that works. [01:51:35.990 --> 01:51:44.870] But additionally, from a product standpoint on Quorum, for example, we have Apex as basically our Discord Nitro equivalent. [01:51:45.130 --> 01:51:47.630] It doesn't give you any special powers in the... [01:51:47.650 --> 01:51:51.370] app, so to speak. It doesn't make your content more visible or anything like that. [01:51:51.770 --> 01:51:56.270] It is a way that you can support the application and also support communities that you're a member [01:51:56.270 --> 01:52:05.270] of. And so, like, I totally am not opposed to ways to, like, obtain revenue for developers [01:52:05.270 --> 01:52:09.510] building the protocol, building clients, et cetera. I think that's a perfectly reasonable thing [01:52:09.510 --> 01:52:17.680] to seek out. The third thing I would say is that, yeah, ultimately, like, I mean, the prior [01:52:17.740 --> 01:52:24.300] owners making their own business decisions and trying to like hash out their way of finding the [01:52:24.300 --> 01:52:31.840] viable path to sustainable revenue. Neither one of them figured that out. And I think part of that [01:52:31.840 --> 01:52:39.380] is because building a social network in general has a very heavy front-loaded cost. You know, [01:52:39.380 --> 01:52:44.060] you've got to build the community first before there's any reasonable amount of value people can [01:52:44.060 --> 01:52:49.900] bind in it. But I think we are actually at the point where viable revenue can occur. I mean, [01:52:49.900 --> 01:52:57.100] we wouldn't have had four, four, right? Yeah, for self-organizing FARCON events if there wasn't a, [01:52:57.480 --> 01:53:02.280] if there wasn't, you know, viable revenue strategies. It's just that they weren't found. And I, [01:53:02.280 --> 01:53:08.300] I think that the, the Nitro model actually is one of those that could work really well. But yeah, [01:53:08.300 --> 01:53:09.300] not opposed to it. [01:53:09.300 --> 01:53:11.260] Yeah. [01:53:11.260 --> 01:53:12.260] Yeah. [01:53:12.260 --> 01:53:13.260] Yeah. [01:53:13.260 --> 01:53:22.260] And in addition to that, I would want to say that Farcaster and whosoever that is handling the hands of [01:53:22.260 --> 01:53:27.360] it should be careful with what they publish. [01:53:27.360 --> 01:53:36.360] At the current state we are now, people are, there is a logger demo arithmetic saying [01:53:36.360 --> 01:53:38.360] they are low users turning out on Farcaster. [01:53:38.360 --> 01:53:39.680] on Farcaster. [01:53:39.680 --> 01:53:43.520] I think that's one of their cryout recently. [01:53:43.520 --> 01:53:47.280] There are low users that are using Farcaster at the moment. [01:53:47.280 --> 01:53:52.360] So just waking up and without proper consultation, [01:53:52.360 --> 01:53:56.680] someone is typing some kind of a bluffy one. [01:53:56.680 --> 01:54:01.200] It's going to propel more people to leave [01:54:01.200 --> 01:54:06.040] and you'll see people dejecting their asset. [01:54:06.040 --> 01:54:08.340] The same thing has gone with banker, [01:54:08.360 --> 01:54:17.100] recently, you know, the news broke and people are claiming their rewards and everything just goes down. [01:54:17.520 --> 01:54:27.620] So it is to be handled with care whenever there is a decision, whenever there is an opinion that someone is sensing. [01:54:27.620 --> 01:54:38.340] There should be a kind of a group chat like this, like the one you just popped on, that people can rob minds. [01:54:38.360 --> 01:54:40.840] and it should not be just one person opinion [01:54:40.840 --> 01:54:43.100] waking up and telling us that [01:54:43.100 --> 01:54:45.220] this shit has to be with someone else [01:54:45.220 --> 01:54:47.880] and they need that they can do this, they can do that. [01:54:48.880 --> 01:54:49.900] People don't care. [01:54:50.560 --> 01:54:52.040] When news break like this [01:54:52.040 --> 01:54:56.420] and already the system is getting weak to pass it. [01:54:57.540 --> 01:54:59.760] It only encourages more people to leave [01:54:59.760 --> 01:55:02.460] like everything is turning into a joke. [01:55:02.460 --> 01:55:05.180] The same way people messed up telegram [01:55:05.180 --> 01:55:07.760] that the whole users are now wondering [01:55:07.760 --> 01:55:15.310] looking for where else to go because TG is messed up so I'm saying Farcaster at the [01:55:15.310 --> 01:55:21.390] moment is complaining about the numbers of users the turn-ups that are low [01:55:21.390 --> 01:55:28.530] comparing to the cost incurred and you you the person whosoever that is [01:55:28.530 --> 01:55:35.610] type in carelessly will only make it worse by going again and cast something [01:55:35.610 --> 01:55:44.370] upon what is degrading already the whole system is going down without anybody posting anything [01:55:44.370 --> 01:55:55.850] and now you're waking up and faster typing shit about Farcaster, the Farcaster seems to be they can afford [01:55:55.850 --> 01:55:57.570] to run Farcaster and all that. [01:55:57.570 --> 01:56:02.850] You know, to a layman, nobody wants to hear that the company or the associates you trying [01:56:02.850 --> 01:56:04.710] to work with isn't financial [01:56:04.710 --> 01:56:06.670] stable. It's a red flag. [01:56:07.650 --> 01:56:08.770] So those words [01:56:08.770 --> 01:56:10.710] are compounding the pressure of [01:56:10.710 --> 01:56:13.120] Farcaster. Yeah, I think [01:56:13.120 --> 01:56:13.940] that's totally fair. [01:56:14.860 --> 01:56:16.960] One thing I do want to call out a little [01:56:16.960 --> 01:56:18.840] bit, though, I think that this is something [01:56:18.840 --> 01:56:20.500] that should be [01:56:20.500 --> 01:56:21.600] kept in mind. [01:56:22.600 --> 01:56:24.800] There is always, like, even from [01:56:24.800 --> 01:56:26.680] the beginning of Farcaster, [01:56:27.200 --> 01:56:28.700] crypto, Twitter in particular, [01:56:29.280 --> 01:56:30.760] and even some folks [01:56:30.760 --> 01:56:31.260] on [01:56:32.940 --> 01:56:38.000] have always had like a very adversarial position to Farcaster. [01:56:39.440 --> 01:56:45.820] And so like any opportunity they can to gloat on a perceived failure, [01:56:45.980 --> 01:56:49.300] even if it's not an actual one, is something that they will do. [01:56:49.500 --> 01:56:50.980] And that is just the nature of the beast. [01:56:51.220 --> 01:56:54.880] Like highly competitive industries are like this, no matter where you cut it, [01:56:54.960 --> 01:56:57.160] but social can get really, really brutal. [01:56:57.840 --> 01:57:01.340] But one of the things I also want to call out as an observation, [01:57:01.340 --> 01:57:02.720] because I saw this a lot on Twitter, [01:57:03.180 --> 01:57:05.020] a lot of the people who are making those remarks [01:57:05.020 --> 01:57:07.580] and getting a lot of shares on their remarks, [01:57:07.980 --> 01:57:11.800] talking basically like dancing on the grave of Farcaster, so to speak, [01:57:12.480 --> 01:57:14.980] they're running their own crypto-social protocols, [01:57:15.440 --> 01:57:20.740] and so they have a lot of motivation to make those kinds of remarks. [01:57:21.320 --> 01:57:24.100] Sure, I think it's fair to say that, you know, [01:57:24.400 --> 01:57:27.620] some of the discourse that happens on Farcaster hasn't exactly been helpful. [01:57:28.280 --> 01:57:30.720] And sure, there's definitely a different way [01:57:30.720 --> 01:57:35.400] that you know like announcing nanar is stepping down that that could have been done a little differently [01:57:35.400 --> 01:57:42.740] but at the same time like ultimately um you know there there's always going to be people who are [01:57:42.740 --> 01:57:50.380] going to say like stupid things online because that's just that's the internet so i i don't think that [01:57:50.380 --> 01:57:55.640] this is remotely the end for farcaster i wouldn't be you know committing to this call i wouldn't [01:57:55.640 --> 01:58:00.480] be committing to the work i've done on hyper snap or quorum uh especially on the farcaster integration [01:58:00.780 --> 01:58:08.520] I wouldn't be like putting that kind of effort in unless I know that not only is this network going to succeed, [01:58:08.720 --> 01:58:11.820] I think that the way it's going to succeed is going to surprise people. [01:58:14.880 --> 01:58:19.960] Yeah, there are many, many testimonies about Farcaster. [01:58:20.860 --> 01:58:31.060] And I think, as for me, I would implore the team behind whosoever that is still in charge. [01:58:32.380 --> 01:58:38.200] people in charge so please remember something that there is nowhere else to [01:58:38.200 --> 01:58:47.650] go and the the best part anyone can take in Farcaster right now is to keep [01:58:47.650 --> 01:58:53.530] integrating to keep signing those smart contracts and never gonna look back [01:58:53.530 --> 01:59:00.440] because it's it's it's what it and they should not think they are the [01:59:00.440 --> 01:59:02.420] one going to be milking on this wallet [01:59:02.440 --> 01:59:11.320] because the moment the team stops giving out donuts to people and they feel like maybe they are [01:59:11.320 --> 01:59:17.800] forgotten you know people just want to wake up every day and and get to see some 20 bucks 50 bucks [01:59:17.800 --> 01:59:27.080] 80 box just like we style for casta they don't want to walk and nothing nothing free goes goes [01:59:27.080 --> 01:59:38.760] forever so as for me for casta seems to be doing good before the news break and here we are at the [01:59:38.760 --> 01:59:46.760] community call my own feedback for everyone listening right now is that forecasta is doing so much great [01:59:46.760 --> 01:59:57.260] if running the the app itself is costly does not um does not imply [01:59:57.280 --> 02:00:06.280] that the system is failing and we should sit down and read over what rich [02:00:06.280 --> 02:00:13.390] published has nothing to do with failure all they are saying it is just the [02:00:13.390 --> 02:00:18.890] same way people in the aviation industry get to complain about the jet for [02:00:18.890 --> 02:00:23.670] whenever the brand crude or the crude oil goes up it's not saying the [02:00:23.670 --> 02:00:27.610] aviation sector is a bad sector Farcaster is a [02:00:27.630 --> 02:00:41.980] a bad place to be but the team are obviously saying that to to propel the to continue running the [02:00:41.980 --> 02:00:50.780] system the Farcaster seems to be much more expensive like they're flagging out some itchy [02:00:50.780 --> 02:00:59.020] activities on bills paid and all that so please every listener listening to these [02:00:59.580 --> 02:01:10.270] Just like we had about SNAP, when SNAP came, me and my friends were complaining about the numbers of what we got from SNAPs. [02:01:10.270 --> 02:01:17.810] And I was telling one of my friends that you left Farcaster for three months, but I engaged without engaging yourself with it. [02:01:18.190 --> 02:01:29.590] But the moment they had about the news of SNAP, everyone was calling me, have you gotten yours, have you gotten yours, and opening it, of course, Snap is irrespective. [02:01:29.610 --> 02:01:41.870] of nobody and there is no sentiment in SNAP it is based on how hard or how smart or how [02:01:41.870 --> 02:01:49.870] you are able to turn up before the day of reward I got mine and I was be pleased with [02:01:49.870 --> 02:01:57.370] it because I trust Nina and every all the conditions that was taken in place to [02:01:57.370 --> 02:02:06.890] make those allocation is not human being it's uh it's a autonomous and and i just have to accept it that [02:02:06.890 --> 02:02:14.730] way so the same way um when we are working on faucaster and you you know yourself that there is no [02:02:14.730 --> 02:02:21.210] way there is no no better place to interact with um developers and builders and get all these [02:02:21.210 --> 02:02:26.890] apps built in 515 minutes just like faqasta did um for me and for me and [02:02:27.370 --> 02:02:34.770] I've checked all the socials, I haven't seen a full-scale app as Farcaster. [02:02:34.770 --> 02:02:37.770] You know, Neynar had nothing to do with SNAP, right? [02:02:37.770 --> 02:02:42.370] Like, the SNAP token is completely independent of Neynar period. [02:02:42.370 --> 02:02:44.970] Like, it was not created by the Neynar team. [02:02:44.970 --> 02:02:47.970] It's not even associated with the Neynar team. [02:02:47.970 --> 02:02:50.180] Okay. [02:02:50.180 --> 02:02:55.780] But I thought in Wolf, before now, before you telling me this, [02:02:55.780 --> 02:02:58.180] I thought that there must be something that, right, [02:02:58.180 --> 02:03:02.960] that's rationalized what and what each user gets, isn't it? [02:03:03.480 --> 02:03:05.060] There's no air drop coming. [02:03:06.380 --> 02:03:11.400] If you're talking about the retroactive rewards, yes, it's based on the proof of work formula, [02:03:11.700 --> 02:03:18.300] like the proof of quality, specifically, the user reward side. [02:03:18.300 --> 02:03:25.440] It's literally just running the same algorithm that the protocol will run indefinitely, [02:03:25.440 --> 02:03:29.540] but run retroactively on the history of Farcaster. [02:03:30.260 --> 02:03:33.220] But, yeah, no, that Neynar wasn't responsible for that. [02:03:33.380 --> 02:03:34.480] That was Hyper SNAP. [02:03:34.580 --> 02:03:37.340] Hyper SNAP is separate from Neynar. [02:03:40.080 --> 02:03:49.020] Okay, so the hyper SNAP was the one that studied the behavior of the user to allocate the SNAP. [02:03:49.460 --> 02:03:50.120] Correct, yeah. [02:03:50.540 --> 02:03:50.920] Is it? [02:03:53.030 --> 02:03:54.270] Thank you for clarifying. [02:03:54.270 --> 02:03:58.230] I think at this point, I would let others speak. [02:03:58.350 --> 02:04:00.050] I've spoken all [02:04:00.050 --> 02:04:01.770] I can and I think [02:04:01.770 --> 02:04:04.410] I will continue using Farcaster in [02:04:04.410 --> 02:04:05.930] my own best interest. [02:04:06.490 --> 02:04:08.290] Thank you everyone. Yeah, thank you for [02:04:08.290 --> 02:04:09.510] coming up to speak. [02:04:09.810 --> 02:04:12.470] I really appreciate [02:04:12.470 --> 02:04:14.610] all the comments everybody's [02:04:14.610 --> 02:04:16.510] given on this call. It's super [02:04:16.510 --> 02:04:18.470] helpful in refining what our focus [02:04:18.470 --> 02:04:20.510] should be, where our priorities should be [02:04:20.510 --> 02:04:22.310] and also getting attention [02:04:22.310 --> 02:04:23.550] to [02:04:23.550 --> 02:04:25.210] a community-driven [02:04:25.210 --> 02:04:27.010] ownership of the [02:04:27.010 --> 02:04:29.710] of the protocol and the flagship app. [02:04:30.330 --> 02:04:34.790] That said, we are two hours and five minutes into this now. [02:04:35.110 --> 02:04:36.890] I'm going to need to wrap it up. [02:04:37.910 --> 02:04:41.550] But I think we need to like continue these calls, of course. [02:04:42.670 --> 02:04:46.690] And like I said earlier, if anybody wants to be more involved, [02:04:46.830 --> 02:04:51.890] either, you know, developing hypersnap or like actively involved as a participant [02:04:51.890 --> 02:04:56.150] in the acquisition of Farcaster, please reach out. [02:04:57.010 --> 02:05:03.750] We're going to try to move as quickly as we can to avoid, like, you know, losing the opportunity that sits in front of us. [02:05:05.440 --> 02:05:11.240] And I guess, as other folks have said, long live the Internet and long live Farcaster. [02:05:12.180 --> 02:05:12.880] Thanks all. [02:05:16.020 --> 02:05:16.500] Bye. [02:05:20.310 --> 02:05:21.010] Thank you.

## Comments

**mishaderidder.eth**: Original call https://farcaster.xyz/cassie/0x607ec194

Made a summary;)

Farcaster is a social protocol that must prioritize being credibly neutral and decentralized to remain a sustainable public good.

Protocol-level feature gating, such as paying for embeds, is opposed because it restricts fundamental user communication.

High infrastructure costs for social applications are largely driven by the protocol's inability to sufficiently meet client needs.

A transition plan is proposed involving the merger of Quorum and Farcaster clients, alongside cost-reduction measures and a new organizational structure.

Direct Messaging (DM) activity is identified as a critical differentiator for user engagement that exceeds public casting metrics.

Onboarding processes must be simplified, specifically moving away from crypto wallet requirements toward NFC or QR code scans for improved user accessibility.

Third-party feed providers at the protocol level are essential to allow for user-customizable content discovery and curation.

Sustainability should be prioritized over aggressive, immediate growth to ensure the protocol persists as long as there is user demand.

Revenue models like 'Quorum Apex' (a Nitro-style subscription with a revenue split) are supported as sustainable alternatives to predatory feature gating.

The community is encouraged to converge and collaborate to prevent the acquisition of Farcaster by entities that do not share the protocol's core cultural values.